Eb or BBb tuba?

[LCH3]

Greetings,

About 4 months ago I started playing a 3-valve Eb tuba. Since I was playing a euphonium treble clef, the Eb tuba made the fingering adjustment fairly simple. I am playing as the only bass in a church orchestra and also at times a brass ensemble.

Now, I am hitting the low A note barrier with the 3-valve. I have to decide whether to move to a 4-valve Eb and expand the low range or just go to a 3 or 4 valve BBb and learn that fingering. It appears neither option is particularly inexpensive, so I can only do one. Right now, I am leaning toward the BBb.

Assuming the fingering is not an issue, what other considerations are there that would favor Eb or BBb? I am new to the tuba world and would appreciate any thoughts or advice from the braintrust out there.

Thanks.....LCH3

[Bob Kolada]

If your Eb is playable and you can keep it, getting a Bb would broaden your possibilities. Depending on what music you play and the individual horn, a 3 valve Bb could work.

What do you have now?

[LCH3]

I have an old 3-valve Eb Conn, model 14J silver. It's obviously had a rough life, but it plays fine.

You make a good point that about the Bb.

Thanks....LH

[Bob Kolada]

http://www.xs4all.nl/~cderksen/Conn14J1955image.html
Like this?

A Yamaha 321 Eb might be worth checking out. What euphonium do you play? If it's a 4 top valve model, then you'd have the same fingering patterns! And if your euph is a 321, you'd be the coolest kid on the block!

[termite]

A good player will cover the same range on Eb or Bb assuming enough valves. A larger BBb will sound different to an Eb when played properly. It won't be louder but will sound bigger and broader and support a large ensemble better. It will have more of a surround sound effect rather than cutting through. It's a bit like comparing a bass guitar played through a small amp to the same bass going through a much larger rig. The Bb will have more weight to the sound.

A three valve Bb will play down to low E fluently. Anything below that is really only for the "big" last chord.

Regards

Gerard

[termite]

At the risk of sounding negative I've spent a bit of time on the YEB321 and I'd rather have a three valve BBb with a decent sound. I have a 1291BBb five valve, an old Boosey&Hawkes three valve BBb which I use for marching and a YEB321. For me (I'm a lousy EEb player) the 321 falls in a hole below the low A. Low F is all valves down and a maximum pull on the longest slide you can find. The same note on BBb is normal, easy playing range.
The 321 has a much better high register than the Imperial - I don't know how the larger old American three valve BBb's go up high. The Imperial would probably not have anywhere near the sound of some of the old three valve American tubas (20J? ) but never the less the YEB321 is for sale....

(Oh yeah, the 1291BBb kills the others in ALL registers.....)

All my opinion only.

Regards

Gerard (From Melbourne Australia with no access to big old American tubas but who WANTS to play them).

[Dean E]

. . . . Now, I am hitting the low A note barrier with the 3-valve. . . .

Most 3-valve Eb tubas will give some usable--some even good sounding--false tones for Ab (open) and G (2nd valve).

I have no problem playing low Ab's in "The Star Spangled Banner" and National Emblem with false tones.

Some tubas give a good response for even lower false tones. Have you experimented with false tones?

For small amateur groups, you should be fine with playing the out-of-legal-range notes up an octave on your Eb tuba.

[Bob Kolada]

At the risk of sounding negative I've spent a bit of time on the YEB321 and I'd rather have a three valve BBb with a decent sound... For me (I'm a lousy EEb player) the 321 falls in a hole below the low A. Low F is all valves down and a maximum pull on the longest slide you can find. The same note on BBb is normal, easy playing range. ..The 321 has a much better high register than the Imperial... The Imperial would probably not have anywhere near the sound of some of the old three valve American tubas (20J? ) but never the less the YEB321 is for sale....

While it may not have the same low register as a 1291 Bb (which I think nothing can match ), a medium sized Eb really is a different instrument.

Assuming you wouldn't get a lot of $ for your 321, I suggest keeping it as there might come a time when you'd like to use it (brass band Eb parts, quintet, teaching the missus how to play ,...). If nothing else, you already have it!

[termite]

Assuming you wouldn't get a lot of $ for your 321, I suggest keeping it as there might come a time when you'd like to use it (brass band Eb parts, quintet, teaching the missus how to play ,...). If nothing else, you already have it!

It's actually my wife's tuba. I've meaning to sell it for two years now. My six year old son get's a good sound on the 1291 but he seems to run out of air easily.....

[iiipopes]

What is your budget? The next step up for a new Eb horn would be either one of the two Cerveny models or St Pete.

Yes, if you're going to transcend the continental shelf down to the trenches and live among the anglerfish, you might want to get a CC or BBb. But the Cerveny or St Pete 5-valve will get you there also, just with not quite as much heft. Since you do plumb the depths on occasion, a 5-valve is necessary to keep from having to pull as much, especially with common notes Ab fingered 4+5, G usually fingered 2+3+4, and Gb and lower, which could be any combination of valves down and slide pulls, depending on the instrument.

OTOH, regardless of which of these Eb's you choose, it will still be at least a $1k more than a basic 4/4 sized 4-valve BBb. If you seldom if ever play in the high range, then a switch may be in order. Yes, a BBb 186 or a good version of a similar tuba, will last you the rest of your playing days.

As posted above, for example, lowest F 4 ledger lines down is an easy 4th valve on a BBb tuba, 4+5 on a CC tuba, but a near pedal "do I have enough valves" on an Eb that can be difficult to play. But then again, most eefers sing in the top half of the bass clef, while getting there on a CC or BBb, with the partials ever so much closer to gether as you go up, take more embouchure security and stability and air than a lot of people want to give.

I know, clear as mud.

[Wyvern]

If it is just range you want to extend, easiest to stay with Eb and get a 4, or 5 valve - but if it is a larger band and you would also like to provide a broader foundation, then a large BBb will provide the most satisfactory results.

[LCH3]

I appreciate the observations and advice that has come and that will yet come.

Bob K - yes, that is my Eb, but in silver. My euphonium is a Schiller Elite, that does very well. Laab tells me they will soon have a Schiller Eb to add to their existing tuba line. Any thoughts on the Schiller tubas?

Dean E - I had not considered false tones. Still spending time on perfecting the true tones, but I'll give it a whack, thanks for that suggestion.

Again, thanks all......LCH3

[sloan]

I play 4V BBb and 3+1V EEb in various community bands. In my opinion, your best bet is to find
a 4V BBb and hold onto your 3V Eb. This will allow you to cover just about any concert band situation.

If I'm the only tuba (or even one of two), I much prefer a BBb for supporting a reasonably large concert band. This has more to do with the tone quality and sound than the range - but range is important, too. A 4V BBb will take you everywhere you need to go, and a large enough one can support a band all by itself. I don't recommend a 3V BBb - in my opinion you simply won't gain *enough* low range to make it worthwhile. I suspect a 4V EEb would serve you better than a 3V BBb.

If I'm one of four, I prefer the EEb. There are now some low notes that I can't play up to performance standard on the EEb - but that hardly matters because someone else has them covered. I play the top end of the divisi's and everyone is happy. It's not that I can play all that much higher on the EEb - it's just that the high end is a bit more *secure*.

You stipulated that we should assume that fingering is not a problem. I've been playing BBb for about 50 years, and EEb for only 2, and I'm still noticeably "more at home" on the BBb. but, I think it's safe to say the *fingerings* are not my most glaring weakness on the EEb.

[Tundratubast]

Find a Lacquered BESSON 983 EEb, and have it all covered. 4v comp, great range top to bottom, wonderful pedals. I'm already sorry I've sold my silver 983. I hate hind site.

[DonShirer]

A few thoughts on staying in the Eb category.
1. Learning Bb fingering will take some time to become natural, but would be useful if you intend to be a (semi?) professional musician.
2. If it is just a matter of stong low notes, there are several EEb 4 or 5 valve tubas with a solid lower range. (I switched from a YEB321 for this reason).
3. In 8 years in a community band, I could count on the fingers of my spitvalve hand how many times I ran across notes I couldn't play on a 4v EEb.
4. If you are considering any solo or ensemble work, Ebs are slightly more facile in the high range.

[TUbajohn20J]

....suspect a 4V EEb would serve you better than a 3V BBb....

Unless it's a Conn 20J. Those things can get as low as some 4 or 5 valve BBb tubas and still sound just as good.

[LCH3]

A few thoughts on staying in the Eb category.
1. Learning Bb fingering will take some time to become natural, but would be useful if you intend to be a (semi?) professional musician.
2. If it is just a matter of stong low notes, there are several EEb 4 or 5 valve tubas with a solid lower range. (I switched from a YEB321 for this reason).
3. In 8 years in a community band, I could count on the fingers of my spitvalve hand how many times I ran across notes I couldn't play on a 4v EEb.
4. If you are considering any solo or ensemble work, Ebs are slightly more facile in the high range.

Thanks for the thoughts. Which 4v Eb tuba did you go with?

Thanks.