Joe-
I thought it was something like $38,000 now..
mark
emperor - clothes or not?
-
bisontuba
- 6 valves
- Posts: 4320
- Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 8:55 am
- Location: Bottom of Lake Erie
-
Chris Olka
- pro musician
- Posts: 400
- Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:08 pm
- Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Re: emperor - clothes or not?
Having just bought my second one of these YCB-826S models I think I may have a bit of an informed opinion. I've now played about 12-14 of these including 2nd through 7th generation prototypes. I personally own the very first production model unit (7th generation) as well as a newer (8-10 months old) production unit. They are both excellent examples of the model YCB-826. Both have very similar intonation tendencies with the newer one being ever-so-slightly better in tune.
Now, first caveat: anyone thinking that because they've spent x-amount of dollars means they'll receive an instrument that is perfectly in tune is going to be disappointed. I've owned 3 Nirschl 6/4 Yorks of different vintages, 2 Meinl Weston 2165 models as well as an original factory protoype that was more like the Holton that Meinl Weston Copied for the original version, and these 2 Yamayorks/YCB-826. My opinion is that the YCB-826 model is much more in tune than any of the previous horns I've owned or played. Do they still have intonation quirks? Absolutely. Including all of the various Yamaha prototypes and production models (12-14), all of the Nirschls I've owned or tested (25+?), all of the 6/4 Meinl Weston versions I've owned or tested (25+?), and other models of 6/4 CC tubas, the YCB-826 has the most consistent pitch horn-to-horn for me.
I feel that I should make two important points upfront, though. First, I don't care who makes it, the further away you get from a middle of the road 4/4 CC/BBb dimension, the more problematic pitch, response, and every thing else becomes. My contention is that if you take an excellent 4/4 CC/BBb tuba and compare it to any of the best 6/4 models, the 4/4 model will surpass the larger horn as far as overall playability and friendliness. Of course, the sound characteristics one gets from a larger horn will not be as abundant but that's the tradeoff you make for a larger horn. Many people try these large 6/4 size instruments with hefty price tags and expect them to be better in every regard to the 3/4 or 4/4 instruments they are used to playing. Unfortunately, this is usually quite disappointing.
THis last line leads me to my second point which is the issue of playing experience with large instruments. I've played some sort of 6/4 CC tuba everyday of my career for the last 15 years. The first year after I switched from a 4/4 size horn I really doubted the wisdom of my decision. Every aspect of playing became more work with the exception of producing larger volumes of sound on the 6/4 horns. It took me about a 1-1 1/2 years to really feel comfortable on the big tuba. Now I feel very much at home on 6/4 tubas, more so than any other size. My opinion on the afore mentioned models of 6/4 CC/BBb are based on this experience. I feel that many players test/try 6/4 sized horns and make quick decisions and opinions based on unrealistic expectations and lack of experience playing that platform.
For me, in my hall (Benaroya Hall) which has excellent acoustics, as well as having played just this year with Chicago Symphony and Boston Symphony in their halls, my YCB-826 works very well for me and has received great feedback from my colleagues in the orchestra. Last month I was honored to play with Mike Roylance in BSO at Tanglewood as well as hear him play Mahler 2 with the orchestra (HE SOUNDED AMAZING!) and I could not be happier with my horn.
One big factor in my decision to buy the YCB-826 is how much better it projected than all of the other horns I've tried. I should mention that Mike had a Kanstul prototype bell on one of his Nirschls that we tested and it is very promising as well. Ultimately, there are so many factors surrounding a player's choice of instrument it has to come down to what that individual wants/needs/expects from the horn.
Price tag on the YCB-826 is roughly $31,000 MSRP. That may seem steep but Yamaha offers artist discounts that make the horn in line with the handmade versions of the Meinl-Weston 6/4 CC tubas. I've seen many flaming threads about the advertised price of the Yamahas but they are almost exactly in line with any of the other all-handmade 6/4 models on the market. Anyone with the truck-load of cash and a legitimate use for one of these 6/4 style hogs would do well to try ALL of the models out there and pick what works best for THEM. I have done exactly this and LOVE my 2 YCB-826s.
Having said ALL OF THAT...sorry to be long-winded...my observations are as follows.
The quirks on mine are:
tuning 'C' in the staff is between 5-10 cents sharp
'E' and 'Eb' a third above that are approx. 5 cents flat if played open or 2nd valve
'G' a fifth above that is about 15 cents sharp
'C' on top of the staff is 10-15 cents sharp
everything else is a matter of slide setting.
Low register response on mine are really great for 6/4 horns, meaning that I have to use a lot of air and stay in shape in the low register. If I do my part they have much better response than most other models I've tried.
Sound focus and definition is a matter of perception and personal taste but I love the sound of my horns. I would characterize them as having a big, dark, round sound with a very clear center of pitch. Not too edgy or too wooden and dull. A really great balance of brilliance and depth in the sound.
Articulation and response are great and the newer of my two seems a tad quicker and livelier.
Beyond that I've not found another horn that does more of what I want a tuba to do in a large symphony orchestra yet.
I hope that helps and also want to say that I hope this reply does not come off as high-handed or elitist. The original post mentioned wondering about how many qualified responders might post before it was over-run. I feel strongly about the subject of 6/4 tubas and have wanted to sound off for a while on the subject seeing as how I've probably spent more money than any other player other than Mike Lynch on large tubas in the world. My last estimate put me at about $150,000 invested and spent in the last 15 years on 6/4 tubas ALONE. This thread looked like a good opportunity to weigh-in.
Again, hope it helps,
Chris Olka
Seattle Symphony
Seattle Opera
Now, first caveat: anyone thinking that because they've spent x-amount of dollars means they'll receive an instrument that is perfectly in tune is going to be disappointed. I've owned 3 Nirschl 6/4 Yorks of different vintages, 2 Meinl Weston 2165 models as well as an original factory protoype that was more like the Holton that Meinl Weston Copied for the original version, and these 2 Yamayorks/YCB-826. My opinion is that the YCB-826 model is much more in tune than any of the previous horns I've owned or played. Do they still have intonation quirks? Absolutely. Including all of the various Yamaha prototypes and production models (12-14), all of the Nirschls I've owned or tested (25+?), all of the 6/4 Meinl Weston versions I've owned or tested (25+?), and other models of 6/4 CC tubas, the YCB-826 has the most consistent pitch horn-to-horn for me.
I feel that I should make two important points upfront, though. First, I don't care who makes it, the further away you get from a middle of the road 4/4 CC/BBb dimension, the more problematic pitch, response, and every thing else becomes. My contention is that if you take an excellent 4/4 CC/BBb tuba and compare it to any of the best 6/4 models, the 4/4 model will surpass the larger horn as far as overall playability and friendliness. Of course, the sound characteristics one gets from a larger horn will not be as abundant but that's the tradeoff you make for a larger horn. Many people try these large 6/4 size instruments with hefty price tags and expect them to be better in every regard to the 3/4 or 4/4 instruments they are used to playing. Unfortunately, this is usually quite disappointing.
THis last line leads me to my second point which is the issue of playing experience with large instruments. I've played some sort of 6/4 CC tuba everyday of my career for the last 15 years. The first year after I switched from a 4/4 size horn I really doubted the wisdom of my decision. Every aspect of playing became more work with the exception of producing larger volumes of sound on the 6/4 horns. It took me about a 1-1 1/2 years to really feel comfortable on the big tuba. Now I feel very much at home on 6/4 tubas, more so than any other size. My opinion on the afore mentioned models of 6/4 CC/BBb are based on this experience. I feel that many players test/try 6/4 sized horns and make quick decisions and opinions based on unrealistic expectations and lack of experience playing that platform.
For me, in my hall (Benaroya Hall) which has excellent acoustics, as well as having played just this year with Chicago Symphony and Boston Symphony in their halls, my YCB-826 works very well for me and has received great feedback from my colleagues in the orchestra. Last month I was honored to play with Mike Roylance in BSO at Tanglewood as well as hear him play Mahler 2 with the orchestra (HE SOUNDED AMAZING!) and I could not be happier with my horn.
One big factor in my decision to buy the YCB-826 is how much better it projected than all of the other horns I've tried. I should mention that Mike had a Kanstul prototype bell on one of his Nirschls that we tested and it is very promising as well. Ultimately, there are so many factors surrounding a player's choice of instrument it has to come down to what that individual wants/needs/expects from the horn.
Price tag on the YCB-826 is roughly $31,000 MSRP. That may seem steep but Yamaha offers artist discounts that make the horn in line with the handmade versions of the Meinl-Weston 6/4 CC tubas. I've seen many flaming threads about the advertised price of the Yamahas but they are almost exactly in line with any of the other all-handmade 6/4 models on the market. Anyone with the truck-load of cash and a legitimate use for one of these 6/4 style hogs would do well to try ALL of the models out there and pick what works best for THEM. I have done exactly this and LOVE my 2 YCB-826s.
Having said ALL OF THAT...sorry to be long-winded...my observations are as follows.
The quirks on mine are:
tuning 'C' in the staff is between 5-10 cents sharp
'E' and 'Eb' a third above that are approx. 5 cents flat if played open or 2nd valve
'G' a fifth above that is about 15 cents sharp
'C' on top of the staff is 10-15 cents sharp
everything else is a matter of slide setting.
Low register response on mine are really great for 6/4 horns, meaning that I have to use a lot of air and stay in shape in the low register. If I do my part they have much better response than most other models I've tried.
Sound focus and definition is a matter of perception and personal taste but I love the sound of my horns. I would characterize them as having a big, dark, round sound with a very clear center of pitch. Not too edgy or too wooden and dull. A really great balance of brilliance and depth in the sound.
Articulation and response are great and the newer of my two seems a tad quicker and livelier.
Beyond that I've not found another horn that does more of what I want a tuba to do in a large symphony orchestra yet.
I hope that helps and also want to say that I hope this reply does not come off as high-handed or elitist. The original post mentioned wondering about how many qualified responders might post before it was over-run. I feel strongly about the subject of 6/4 tubas and have wanted to sound off for a while on the subject seeing as how I've probably spent more money than any other player other than Mike Lynch on large tubas in the world. My last estimate put me at about $150,000 invested and spent in the last 15 years on 6/4 tubas ALONE. This thread looked like a good opportunity to weigh-in.
Again, hope it helps,
Chris Olka
Seattle Symphony
Seattle Opera
Chris Olka
Cincinnati Symphony
Cincinnati Symphony