NEW 20K vs. OLD 20K

[SousaSaver]

The recent topic about mouth pipe bracing has peaked my interest. What are your opinions about the new 20K vs. the old style 20K? What do you like and not like?

[bort]

It's been about 10 years since college, but they had a full set of new 20K's from about 1996 or so...? Very interesting to play them all side by side. Some were great, some were iffy. Along the way, they picked up like 2 more a few years later. I hated both of them, thin, blatty, no good. But best of all, the school had a TON of old horns that we used for practice. There was an old naked lady model (not sure which model number), but looked pretty much like the 20K. Great tuba, and I liked it more than any of the new 20K's. How's that for an anecdote?

[Dan Schultz]

I haven't seen any of the new 20K's, yet. The local marching bands seem to be stuck on shoulder-fired contras.

Having spent over thirty years in various types of manufacturing engineering environments... I 'cringe' whenever a company announces 'changes'. Except for new technologies (and tubas don't have any electronics)... the only thing I hear when someone mentions 'new and improved' is 'cheaper to make'. It's rare that the product is actually improved in any way. It's normally a matter of parts consolidation over various models (which don't always work as well), cheaper (sometimes thinner) materials, or the elimination of processes. There is virtually no hand work on production tubas and there is a constant push to lower 'part counts'. Yamaha has been bending entire slides from one piece of tubing for some time... adding 'fake ferrules' to give make it look like an assembly.

Funny.... things get 'cheaper' but the price continues to go up.

[TUbajohn20J]

I agree with EVERYTHING above. Older Conn 20K's have thicker metal, tend to be a little heavier, heavier duty bracing, joints, ferrules...etc. New ones have pretty much the opposite, and have a different bell angle and a different positioned leadpipe/valve section. The most comfortable way for me to hold a new one is to have the neck and bits coming around from the left side with the horn in a more "front to back position". With the old ones, I can still have that good "front to back" position with the neck and bits coming straight on or possibly a little from the right side. But that doesn't really matter I guess. I would prefer an old 20K over a new one anyday. But I do still believe that the new Conn 20K's are the best new sousaphones on the market..but look at your market...jupiters, Yamahas, Dynastys, Bach's..etc..

[SousaSaver]

Here is what I have noticed from having a new one on my bench recently.
-The new ones are easy to spot for two reasons: the mouth pipe bracing and the placement of the serial number. The serial number is placed horizontally on the the first valve casing.
-The bodies seem to be easier to work dents out of. The magnets seem to pop dents right out of the newer 20K body.

Everything else seems to be the same. I can't really speak on the bell angle because I didn't have a problem with it. I wish I still had the one I recently repaired so I could play it side-by-side to the 60's era 20K that is next in line on my bench...

[toobagrowl]

I don't know anything about the newer Conn 20K's. But I do remember the old Conn 20K my middle school had - very warm, enveloping sound. It was a sweet horn! It was also heavy and had over half the lacquer gone. But I liked those short fat offset pistons.

[TUbajohn20J]

Man I love old 20K's (Elkhart and some of the "older" newer ones too). I surely don't need one to add to my collection..but I want one!!!