A little help with some German, bitte?

[smyoung]

Sorry I can't help you with the German
What piece is this from?

[olaness]

You are right, nimmt Dpf would be 'take mute'. Could this be some marking perhaps ahead of a very quick mute change, so the composer has tried to be helpful by asking you to prepare for it?

The odd-looking N and H and standard notation for second viennese school composer, the H being shorthand for Hauptstimme, or main melody, and the N similarly Nebenstimme, or secondary melody/countermelody.

The RH and CH I can't think what they would be at the moment.

Ola

[finnbogi]

P.S. There are also some "o. Dpf." notations that appear unrelated to any other "Dpf." indication. May I presume that this might be (as bloke suggested in another thread on a related topic) just a reminder that no mute (I'm thinking the "o." is for "ohne") is called for, even though other brass may be using mutes at that point?

Correct!

[imperialbari]

I am reasonably good at German and at score reading, so I was very annoyed about not knowing the RH and CH terms. Came to look for the answer today and downloaded the score from IMSLP and there the answer is near the bottom of page 1:

Skærmbillede 2011-03-09 kl. 13.53.05.png

RH = Hauptrhythmus = Main Rhythm (I should have remembered that term as I likely saw it 35 years ago in an excerpt)

CH = Choralmelodie = Hymn Melody (this one is less general, as it refers to the quote of one of Bach’s hymns, Es ist genug!)

The reference to potential substitution for notes not playable by the 2nd trombone becomes more obvious, when seeing the score only asks for 2 trombones, the second being a bass trombone. I haven’t eyed through all of the score, but when that concert was written, the 2 valve Bb bass trombone hardly had been introduced. And not all orchestras had the bass trombone in F.

For pachydermic digestion: In recent years a spelling reform, agreed upon by the German speaking countries, Germany, Austria, and Switzerland, ran foul because it was vetoed by one or more of the German states. Still ß appears on its way out in favour of ss.

Klaus

[imperialbari]

A single valve Bb bass trombone with an F attachment can easily go down to C#. The low B natural takes a bass trombone in F or a pull to Eb on a single valve Bb bass trombone. Very few old style attachment wraps allow for a pull to Eb without a longer slide, yet these must have been in existence, as I have seen the Bb/Eb set-up referred to in a German bass trombone method book.

Klaus

[imperialbari]

I cannot say that this piece is one of my frequently heard favourites. Yet I remember back 40+ years that it was a fond favourite of my repertory teacher in college, who was a violinist himself.

He showed how Berg despite the serialism made references back to the tonal system. And how Berg chose to quote the one and only chorale, which Bach opens with a sequence of 3 ascending major seconds, a strict no-no by any text book on baroque chorale setting, because they outline the dreaded tritonus, then also called Diabolo in Musica.

The chorale Es ist genug is the only choir element in cantata #60. Here first in choir notation with the original clefs and then texted into the violin opening of the last movement, where the tuba has an important function in the transition.

Klaus

[ginnboonmiller]

Ah, now I understand why the local Bach Society is singing Canatata #60 in the same concert.


DG

Bingo. Central to the whole piece. It's a great concerto and a great part. Your first "Hauptstimme" entrance is a very big one - you state the main theme of the concerto solo. It's a really gratifying piece to play, which is something I almost never say about orchestral tuba parts.

I remember it well because it was the first thing I played in college back in 1907 or whenever. I used to have a problem with narcolepsy as a symptom of stage fright. My first big orchestral concert, at a big fancy conservatory, and I lost my place due to unexpected napping. I came to just in time to miss my entrance, and to see the conductor staring at me furiously while cuing the violas. I never fell asleep at a performance or audition again.

[ginnboonmiller]

<donning flame suit> I wonder if the fact that Berg felt it necessary to incorporate tonal sections into his work would suggest that, "Es ist nicht Genug", i.e., it [12 tone] is not enough.

Nah. For one thing, the whole series in that piece is based on the genuinely weird early use of a whole tone scale that starts out the chorale. For another, well, speaking out against serialism, especially pre-1952 or so, is like speaking out against bricks because red buildings can collapse, or speaking out against the color blue because you saw a Picasso that didn't move you once. It's a tool, not an aesthetic, and almost no one was a purist about it, maybe until the total serialism thing cropped up (but the best of those pieces all have edits in them, sacrificing purity of technique for musical value), because the important thing is always the composition, not the brand of pencil used to write the notes down. Usually, if you don't like the way something sounds, it's because of the sounds that you don't like, not because of the way they ended up on paper. Berg definitely knew that, the whole Second Viennese School did, and really only detractors have brought up the whole math-isn't-music thing.

Glad you had fun with it - one of the few orchestral experiences I'd like to have again some day.