Cerveny? B&S? Yamaha? Meinl Weston? Miraphone?

[Nicholas]

Dear TubeNet,

You may have seen past posts of mine, and that I'm buying my own horn in the near future. I am a lower classmen in high school, and many music education staff that I've played for, and chatted with, highly suggest me buying a CC tuba. I personally play mostly classical music, maybe a few modern, but always orchestral classic pieces. Right now, I'm only looking to spend 3,000 max, and I'm not buying a chinese knockoff, I want a good horn that will last me a while.

What I'm asking, are reccomendations on brands to look for.

I know that:
Yamaha
Meinl Weston
Miraphone
York
are all good brands.

But I'm unsure of:
Cerveny
B&S

I never hear much, besides people selling in the market.

Could you please post opinions and experience with the brands I've stated, and other brands that I haven't

Thanks so much

[Tom]

Those are all good brands. Just try before you buy regardless.

Buy the best instrument you can. Key makes no difference... just play the snot out of it.

I really wish that I'd have been told to give BBb tubas a chance before I ever switched years ago. Sure I liked my CC tubas just fine, but at the end of the day, the switch was unnecessary and I know that I overlooked some great BBb tubas that were right under my nose.

[ginnboonmiller]

Where do you live?

Do you have a teacher?

Note the following:

1. We can't help you. I don't play a brand name, I play a tuba. I've played other tubas made by the same people that made my tuba, but I bought my tuba, which was the best one for me. The name means about as much names mean for people. You might know that someone named Rockefeller or Vanderbilt has a lot of money, but that's really all you know. It will not help you choose your girlfriend.

2. $3k isn't gong to get you much among the brand names you've listed, except a used Cerveny. Good Cervenys are good tubas, bad ones aren't, and we're back to step one.

3. You are the one playing it, and other people will be listening to it. You need two pairs of ears when you go tuba shopping because of that. If you can get to one of the big tuba shops and play a bunch of different tubas back to back, you'll get an idea about what you want in terms of the compromise between what feels good to play and what sounds good to listen to. Then you can start hunting for something along those lines for your budget.

4. Unless you get one of the Chinese 5 valve 3/4 CCs that people talk about on here (the one I played was really, really nice), by the time you find something you want that fits your budget of $3000, you can have $4500 to spend if you get a job and save up your money. Do this. You'll have an easier time when you can afford more options.

5. You are very unlikely to end up playing the tuba you buy now for the rest of your life. I can't think of anyone that still plays what they got when they were in high school. Have fun and don't worry about it so much.

6. You aren't looking for a tuba that will make you good. You are looking for a tuba that you can get better on. That means it should be in good shape and not too difficult to play compared to other tubas. Beyond that it's up to you and your practicing.

7. I have always preferred playing with people that don't spend too much time finding the right instrument and spend that time being the best musicians they can be, to playing with people with cool instruments and bad taste in music.

Have fun!

[Rick Denney]

Right now, I'm only looking to spend 3,000 max, and I'm not buying a chinese knockoff, I want a good horn that will last me a while.

What I'm asking, are reccomendations on brands to look for.

Yamaha
Meinl Weston
Miraphone
York
Cerveny
B&S

Requirement 1: Pitched in C
Requirement 2: Not Chinese
Requirement 3: $3000 or less
Requirement 4: Please your teachers
Requirement 5: Good horn
Requirement 6: Durable

These are the requirements you presented. They are basically unattainable. Any tuba in that price range, pitched in C, and not Chinese, will not impress your teachers. Or it will be beat up and near the end of its life, with its durability already used up.

So, you must either go earn more money, consider a Chinese alternative, stick with Bb for now, or seek out different advice.

There are other requirements you don't know about yet, but about which you will develop preferences as you mature. They might include:

Requirement 7: Size?
Requirement 8: Fifth valve?
Requirement 9: Piston or rotary valves?
Requirement 10: Appearance? (though I suspect this is already an unstated requirement)
Requirement 11: Appropriate sound for your style of playing and intentions
Requirement 12: Good scale and intonation

If you don't have preferences in all of these yet, or the ability to discern them on your own, you are not ready. Wait.

I would submit that at your stage of development, it will be very difficult for you to really be able to assess these instruments on your own, so you will be subject to whatever someone else tells you about them. That is a bad place to be, even though you'll have lots of company there. What it means is that you can spend a lot of money on a tuba that will not make you a better player, or give you a return on that investment. And when you do develop enough understanding of your intentions as a musician to be able to discern your needs and requirements, and when you have developed enough skill to be able to determine for yourself which tubas meet those needs and requirements, you'll discover that what you bought now will not be it. If you buy a used instrument wisely, then there's no real harm--you'll be able to sell it for what you paid if you take care of it. But more than likely you'll end up buying and selling for a while until you get to what you really want.

Do you have access to an instrument now? What is it? What don't you like about it?

And, how much do you practice? What are your intentions as a tuba player? Do you intend to major in performance in college? Music education?

In my opinion, the only justification for enduring financial hardship to purchase a pro-level C tuba is when you have intentions of being a performing professional. A Bb tuba will serve the needs of anyone else, until they can afford to buy whatever they want without hardship. But anything you buy now will likely displease you by the time you get to college, and anything you buy as a freshman in college will likely displease you by the time you are a senior.

Wait. Wait. Wait. The longer you can you wait, the better will be your options, and your understanding of your options.

Rick "there is no rush" Denney

[Wyvern]

But I'm unsure of:
Cerveny
B&S

B&S tubas are just another brand by the same company as Meinl-Weston and are of similar high quality.

Cerveny are Czech made, quite lightly build but often good tubas. If you want an inexpensive CC that is not Chinese made, they may be worth checking out, together with the Russian made St.Petersburg. The Tuba Exchange has the latter within your budget http://www.tubaexchange.com/used-produc ... 09N%205893

[swillafew]

Find the horn you want and offer 3000 for it. You might like the outcome...

[Bob Kolada]

That's pretty common range for a 2/3J and it meets all your specs.

[EuphtoTuba]

I have limited experience ( as in after I played all the Euphoniums I though about buying, I decided to play some tubas) B&S or Perantucci tubas) were my favorite. Again I'm a euphonium player use my knowledge for what its worth.

[bort]

Get an old Miraphone 186, and call it a day. Not always around in the $3,000 or less range, but not unheard of.

[rodgeman]

Get an old Miraphone 186, and call it a day. Not always around in the $3,000 or less range, but not unheard of.

+1

Baltimore Brass has two used under $3000

[jmerring]

"Buy the best instrument you can. Key makes no difference... just play the snot out of it."

+1

[Bob Kolada]

Get an old Miraphone 186, and call it a day. Not always around in the $3,000 or less range, but not unheard of.

+1

-2 (to even it out ). Difficult to play, too tubby and lean at the same time,... 184's may well rock (haven't played one), but to me 186's have all the advantages of sitting on a fence.

[Ken Herrick]

There are a few CC Miraphones at Dillon's or Baltimore brass which are not much more expensive. Funny - if a 186 is so bad, how is it that Roger Bobo did so well on those and 184? REALLY BOB!?!?!? I'd hardly call it sitting on a fence and they certainly are not "difficult" to play. The 184 Miraphone would be great to become good on. Roger actually used one in the LA Phil. Later you could add a large CC and if you have really worked and have the talent might never need anything more.
Your price range and CC requirement do limit things. Heck, buy that $1000 Beuscher, have Bloke cut it, refit the valves if needed, get an upright bell and voila!! You could start out just practicing your ring out with it as is. Or buy that King monster on CL and later have a fourth valve added and add a Kanstul Bell - you would then have a fantastic BBb. See ebay forum. There IS NOTHING WRONG with BBb tubas, especially with the wide range of good new ones available now. As Jake said, if he'd had a King 4rv monster BBb when he was young, he never would have switched to CC.

A Conn 2J or 3J might also come along at the price. Occassionally a Mienl Weston 32 pops up in that price range and could serve you well for some time.

My view is that having a decent instrument of your own is an advantage. Regular study with a good teacher helps even more. The number 1 requirement for progressing is P-R-A-C-T-I-C-E.

[Nicholas]

I might be looking at a Meinl Weston 32 at slippery rock that a friend of my instructor is selling.

The only reason I'm looking for a CC is because from what I hear from local instructors is that it has better intonation. That is a huge problem of mine. I would get a Bb but the people I've talked to don't recommend that at the rate that I'm improving.

[jonesbrass]

The only reason I'm looking for a CC is because from what I hear from local instructors is that it has better intonation.

Hmm . . . in tune with itself or in tune better with an orchestra/band? Considering that until recently most CCs were based off of BBb tubas, I don't know if I can agree with that statement. At the end of the day, the ability to play in tune with those around you depends mostly on your own ability. Yes, the right tuba can help, but at the end of the day, it's really up to you.

[SousaSaver]

"Buy the best instrument you can. Key makes no difference... just play the snot out of it."

+1

The key sort of does matter and for good reason. I am exploring this subject specifically and have one professional's opinion that I will post later this evening and I will have more in the future. Remember, this in only one person's opinion.

[Nicholas]

The reason my intonation has been bad personally lately is that I've had bronchitis and pharyngitis for the past month. It's rough.

My budget is doubling soon. My friend realizes what music means to me and is giving me anywhere between 4-5k to buy a better horn. Plus my already 3k should give me a wider spread of options.

But on the conversation about BBb or CC tuba. I'm a lower classmen that wants to go to school for music education. Any opinions?

[Nicholas]

I absolutely love music. It is not a career choice, but my preferred lifestyle. This summer I've vollunteered to mentor at multiple music summer camps. I teach the upper classmen in my section at school on something's. I've given up free credits in school for music theory and the select ensemble.

[noriegatuba]

Get help from a tuba player teacher. Sometimes a good way to go is to entrust a local college professor. They often have easy suggestions for you since they actually teach in the field you are interested in studying under. I found my CC for $2900 on Ebay out of all places so don't rule out all posibilities...stay optimistic. Whatever you do, don't simply go off the brand, thats kind of misinformed. Go with what sounds best for you (with careful nudging from a professional educator) Good luck!

[Rick Denney]

But on the conversation about BBb or CC tuba. I'm a lower classmen that wants to go to school for music education. Any opinions?

Intonation: Bb tubas play as well in tune as C tubas. That means that some Bb tuba play really well in tune, and some don't. Just like with C tubas.

Bb or C as a matter of lifestyle: In all cases, play whatever pitch of tuba you want to play, if you are performing for fun. Buy what you can afford. If you are an educator, I can't think of any real reason to play C, and in any case you'll have to keep your Bb chops in place because that's what your students will be playing. Also, most educators who perform do so in situations where playing Bb doesn't cause them any harm, even of the perceptual kind.

If you will major in performance, then you'll be competing against large numbers of wonderful players all the time. Any sign of laziness will not be tolerated by a good professor, and an unwillingness to learn C fingerings would surely be such a sign. In some college situations, there is a bias against Bb for performance majors, and that puts a burden on the Bb player who refuses to switch. And anyone wanting to perform professionally will want to be able to choose the most efficient instrument possible (efficiency being measured as the ration of desired effect to effort), and in that measurement you'll find more choices in C. But you'll have to be remarkably lucky for one of those choices to be $3000 or less. I would submit that at that price point, there will be more excellent Bb tubas than C tubas to choose from.

Back on intonation. Intonation happens in your ears and brain. An instrument may force you to struggle against it, or it may make good intonation easy, but good intonation is still your responsibility. If you can't hear the problem, a different tuba won't help.

Rick "don't listen to Bob" Denney