Cloned Horns?

mblymyer · Post by **mblymyer** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:09 pm

I'm in the process of looking for a college level CC tuba (I'm going into music performance!) and I was contacted about clone horns for a great price.

It is a clone of the Miraphone CC 186 model.

I have a few worries about cloned horns, since I'm new to the tuba scene, and I really want to see what other people's experiences are with horns such as these and if they really are worth the money and time to purchase one...

Thanks!

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:53 pm

Some are good and some are bad. There have been plenty of discussions recently that could probably be found by searching for "Chinese" or "clone".

The Big Ben · Post by **The Big Ben** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:02 pm

For a start, why don't you tell a little more about your musical experience. How long have you played, what sorts of music you would like to play, what kinds of instruction you have had and what are your long term goals with the tuba (if you know yet)? Do you have a long term instructor or teacher who is a tuba specialist rather than a general brass teacher? Do you own a tuba presently or are you using a school-owned horn?

Where you live kind of makes a difference, too. You are at a distinct advantage if you are within a few hours of a brass dealer who has a wide variety of instruments you can go and play and hear for yourself.

So, a little bit more information, please!

Alex C · Post by **Alex C** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:35 pm

mblymyer wrote:I'm in the process of looking for a college level CC tuba (I'm going into music performance!) and I was contacted about clone horns for a great price.

It is a clone of the Miraphone CC 186 model.

I have a few worries about cloned horns, since I'm new to the tuba scene, and I really want to see what other people's experiences are with horns such as these and if they really are worth the money and time to purchase one...

Thanks!

Go ask the teacher you will be studying with next year before you buy anything. If you are going to trust him/her with your future career, start trusting now.

k001k47 · Post by **k001k47** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:38 pm

tokuno · Post by **tokuno** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:50 am

bloke wrote:fwiw,
If the most salient feature of a tuba is, "It's cheap", what is it? What if - rather than a tuba - it were a woman?

Maybe worth a quick trial blow?

Uncle Buck · Post by **Uncle Buck** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:22 am

bloke wrote: you're probably going to have to wear out some tire rubber.

Lots of people talk about this in terms of checking out horns before you buy.

But the reality is, nobody ever buys a first horn and sticks with it forever. Do your homework, but at some point you just gotta get something. And then some time passes and you realize you're looking for something a little different. And then again. And again.

That's life.

BTW, I'm talking about TUBAS here.

toobaa · Post by **toobaa** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:41 am

What if - rather than a tuba - it were a woman?

Had you asked me in my youth i'd have definitely agreed with your leading tone. However, now that i'm not so youthful, there's definitely something to be said for a lowered capital investment and the associated carrying costs.

mblymyer · Post by **mblymyer** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:14 pm

Some... Interesting responses I dare say.

More info: I'm going to Eastern Michigan to study under Aaron Tindall as a Music Education major.

I'm hoping to look for a horn good enough to pull me through college, but I'd imagine after college my personal use of the horn will either diminish because of teaching duties or I will upgrade to a million dollar horn for professional play, either way, the tuba I'm buying now I can't see much use past being a great horn for college and personal use.

The specific clone I was looking at was a Chineese clone of the Miraphone 186. While I'd love to just walk next door and try the thing out, I believe bloke is right when he said I'm going to have to make the day-drive to Virginia to try it out....However my lack of experience in CC tubas makes me worry that even if I tried it out I might not be able to tell the difference between a great tuba and just an okay one

Tindall said he was never really impressed with the clones in general... He spoke great truths when he said it was safer to buy a known horn than a cloned one...

pgym · Post by **pgym** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:21 pm

mblymyer wrote: Tindall said he was never really impressed with the clones in general.

Which begs the question, when was the last time he conducted a blind--to say nothing of a double blind--test of clone horns?

TexTuba · Post by **TexTuba** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:41 pm

mblymyer wrote:Tindall said he was never really impressed with the clones in general... He spoke great truths when he said it was safer to buy a known horn than a cloned one...

1. He spoke HIS truth.
2. I have tried "known" horns that were garbage. Known horns that cost $XX,XXX

Try them for yourself.

doublebuzzing · Post by **doublebuzzing** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:51 pm

I bought a clone of a VMI which is stamped on the bell "Otto Weimer" from tubatinker. Don't know if it is a Chinese clone but it is an excellent tuba -- comparable to the Miraphones I've tried and way better than the yamaha 641 I played in HS. Maybe I got lucky, who knows.

bort · Post by **bort** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:51 pm

If you want a Miraphone 186, you can probably find a nice used one for not a whole lot more than the clone. That would be where I would start!

Michael Bush · Post by **Michael Bush** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:22 pm

mblymyer wrote: Tindall said he was never really impressed with the clones in general... He spoke great truths when he said it was safer to buy a known horn than a cloned one...

Three rules I've learned:

1. Don't buy a horn your teacher hates.

2. Cloned horns can be perfectly satisfactory.

3. When you're tempted to act according to rule 2, see rule 1.

(Rule 2 is an excellent guide for those who can act without worry what anyone else thinks, but when your future happiness depends on someone who doesn't like it, it just isn't worth it. Peace with the teacher is worth the extra one or two or three thousand dollars.)

bisontuba · Post by **bisontuba** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:53 pm

Hi-
I believe your teacher, Aaron, is a Besson artist--might he be able to get you a good deal on a Besson CC--have you asked him? Just a thought.
Regards-
mark

pgym · Post by **pgym** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:25 pm

talleyrand wrote: (Rule 2 is an excellent guide for those who can act without worry what anyone else thinks, but when your future happiness depends on someone who doesn't like it, it just isn't worth it. Peace with the teacher is worth the extra one or two or three thousand dollars.)

A teacher who is so petty and immature that he or she going make your life miserable because of the make or brand of horn you play, he or she is not worth studying with. Period.

The Big Ben · Post by **The Big Ben** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:16 pm

bloke wrote:...just about time for more random political comments...

Did you guys know that Chinese instruments are made by COMMUNISTS?

bort · Post by **bort** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:05 pm

Make sure your tuba has a birth certificate. Or, at least a good fake.

Aaron Tindall · Post by **Aaron Tindall** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:36 am

Thank you everyone for your advice to an incoming student of mine. While some of the opinions on here are worthwhile, others are downright assertive that I do not have the best interest of my student and the horn that he purchases at heart.

I don't appreciate comments such as "A teacher who is so petty and immature that he or she going make your life miserable because of the make or brand of horn you play, he or she is not worth studying with. Period."

This could not be farther from the truth. I do not require my students to play on one make/brand or model instrument in my studio, but instead merely one that works, is not going to fall apart, plays in tune with itself, and can get the student to where he or she needs/wants to go in their future. I have played many clone models at clinics/conferences and have found that they are not what I would suggest to my students to buy/purchase for their playing needs. End of story.

While at IU Mr. P required us as a studio to stay off of Tubenet because of the worthlessness of the majority of the chatter on here. Some of the responses, and attitudes of this post are exactly why I encourage my present kids to not converse on this forum, and only take what they read with a grain of salt.

Michael Bush · Post by **Michael Bush** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:04 am

I'm not so sure anyone meant any of that talk about tension with teachers to be about you in particular.

Some people have experienced conflict with teachers. It would have been preferable not to have gone through those experiences. That's all.

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