Anyone seen one of these tubas?

[CrappyEuph]

Hi!

One of my students has purchased a mysterious Eb tuba for $500. It is a Besson "Prototype" and the serial number is 102481, which apparently means it was made around 1920. It's a really weird horn - the slides are on the opposite side than normal, and the best-fitting mouthpiece for the receiver seems to be a euro-shank euphonium mouthpiece. The mouthpiece that came with it is about the size of a bass trombone mouthpiece - it looks way too small for a tuba. All it says on it is "6."

The horn is more or less playable - it doesn't sound great, especially with the small mouthpiece - but my student would like to maximize its potential. Does anyone have suggestions about an appropriate mouthpiece/adapter, or any modifications that can be made to make the tuba sound better?

Thanks,
Jamie Lipton

[TheHatTuba]

Is the bell about 13"?

[Kevin Hendrick]

Hi!

One of my students has purchased a mysterious Eb tuba for $500. It is a Besson "Prototype" and the serial number is 102481, which apparently means it was made around 1920. It's a really weird horn - the slides are on the opposite side than normal, and the best-fitting mouthpiece for the receiver seems to be a euro-shank euphonium mouthpiece. The mouthpiece that came with it is about the size of a bass trombone mouthpiece - it looks way too small for a tuba. All it says on it is "6."

The horn is more or less playable - it doesn't sound great, especially with the small mouthpiece - but my student would like to maximize its potential. Does anyone have suggestions about an appropriate mouthpiece/adapter, or any modifications that can be made to make the tuba sound better?

Thanks,
Jamie Lipton

Hi Jamie,

Schilke appear to make most, if not all, of their trombone/euphonium mouthpieces (40 through 60) available with the euro shank -- if you were to go that way, I'd be inclined to try a 60 first, if your student intends to keep the original receiver and leadpipe.

Doug Elliott has rim/cup/backbore combinations for euro shank that range a little larger I.D. and deeper than the Schilke 60 -- seems like that would be a good choice also.

Interesting project -- hope it turns out well.

[iiipopes]

That's the way Besson made them then, before merging with Boosey. The shank is the smaller shank. The best mouthpiece for this type of horn is a Wick 3 (no letter) which has the smaller shank and a deep enough cup to get a good tone out of the smaller bore and bell.

[Kevin Hendrick]

As regards the taper size -- were you indicating the medium-shank euphonium taper, or the British-shank tuba taper?

[bort]

I've seen BBb Bessons like this, but not Eb. Kinda ugly ducklings, but kinda cool too.

Actually...probably a lot like this (this picture shows the back of the tuba, with all the tubing):

http://www.dillonmusic.com/p-12687-besson-eb.aspx

[SplatterTone]

I have a 1919 Holton e-flat. The tuning slide is like a rounded W instead of U so it won't extend beyond the bottom bow; the slides are otherwise standard. The shank size of the mouthpiece -- which I think is the original -- is very close to euro euphonium with a bowl that I'd guess is medium-shallow and a little wider than Bach 25. It takes some practice to learn how to play it without being stuffy. But if the embouchure is right, it does rather well.

[imperialbari]

Almost 3 years ago there was a thread on this type of tubas:

viewtopic.php?p=252130#p252130

My best mouthpiece solution so far for my own 1870 Besson 3+1P non-comp Eb is the original blokepiece Solo #1 (pre-screw-rims). It has an American shank which doesn’t go deep into the small (for tuba that is) receiver that equals a bass trombone receiver. Since then bloke has come up with his Imperial model, which comes with small and American shanks. That model is the one blokepiece I don’t have yet. I plan on getting one, but not with the small receiver, as the target tuba for that piece is my 1999 Besson Sovereign 981.

OK, I am into wide cup diameters, and I also used to be into deep cups for everything. However my more recent experiences with this old small bore tuba say that too deep cups will overload such old instruments designed for mouthpieces very similar to current bass trombone mouthpieces.

Klaus

[iiipopes]

As regards the taper size -- were you indicating the medium-shank euphonium taper, or the British-shank tuba taper?

Tuba

[Kevin Hendrick]

As regards the taper size -- were you indicating the medium-shank euphonium taper, or the British-shank tuba taper?

Tuba

That's what I thought -- take a look at Jamie's original post & you'll find this:

It's a really weird horn - the slides are on the opposite side than normal, and the best-fitting mouthpiece for the receiver seems to be a euro-shank euphonium mouthpiece.

Isn't that the size between tenor and bass trombone shanks?