Composers and tubas

[Anterux]

we play everything.

music for trumpet, Opera areas, music for flute (even for piccolo!), etc etc etc.

we transpose them for our tessitura.

we adapt them to our instrument in various ways.

we also, from time to time, play music for tuba.

do you think the repertoire for tuba is enough?

do you think it trully explores the potential of the instrument?

do you think it has enough musicality to put the tuba in a similar position of the other instruments without the aid of arrangements?

Ideas needed about this.

[Anterux]

some posts dissapear... why?

[Dylan King]

They certainly know if they play tuba themselves. HA!

[kegmcnabb]

some posts dissapear... why?

I believe that Anterux is referring to my attempt at humor which has apparently been sent to Off Topic purgatory under the heading Yuk Yuk Yuk. I'm not really sure why, as it seemed no less appropriate that many other posts that remain on the BBS. I had a little fun with a typo (coposers, rather than composers) made by Anterux, to which he responded with a bit of humor of his own. Oh well, as my wife often tells me...I am probably not as funny as I think I am. What does bother me a little however is that my second "more thoughtful" post was removed as well.

Anyway, despite my concern of unnecessary "editing" I must say that TubeNet is without a doubt the best and most well moderated of any BBS I have participated in.

Anyway, I will repost my "thoughtful" post below...

I am sure that (just like everything else) some composers are very aware of our instruments potential, while some (probably a higher percentage) are not.

Is there enough music for the tuba? Well, probably not, but it does get better every year and really, that is about all you can ask for.

What's the solution? I would suggest that rather than waiting for new composers and compositions to discover the tuba and tuba players, that tuba players instead discover composition. No-one has a better idea of the possiblilities for this instrument than those who play it. If everyone of us would find an hour a week (yeah, I know...they're hard to come by) and attempt to create a few bars of cool tubaistic (a perfectly cromulent word) material, we might find that we have the compositional power to change the situation.

It's worth a try!
Craig
------------
Marzan BBb
Kubicki Ex-Factor Bass

[Anterux]

thank you kegmcnabb

I am sure that there was reasons for that to happen.

and I make your words also mine:

TubeNet is without a doubt the best and most well moderated of any BBS I have participated in.

[Dan Schultz]

I vote a firm NO!!!!... American composers, anyway. They either don't know or simply don't care that tubas come in many keys... and WE'RE the ones who have to contend with all the different fingerings! Otherwise, they would be writing transposed tuba parts in the treble clef like some of the older parts of the World.

[kegmcnabb]

What would tuba players ever have been able to do, had there been no composers who wrote things that were beyond tuba players' capabilities?

Well,

I gotta agree, that's a durn good point!

Still, there's no reason for tubists not to attempt composition.

Craig

[Roger Lewis]

Many composers do not know either the capabilities or the potential range of the instrument. Having done about 40 world premiers for both solo tuba and brass quintet I've pretty much seen it all. As to having to decide what horn to use - you should be able to do anything-on anything. Practice the Ride on your F, Bydlo on your CC, Fountains on your Eb, Prokofief on your euph. It doesn't matter - you will select the horn that will give you the best chance for success. If you don't know the fingerings for that horn, then spend a little more time with it and get to know them.

My PET PEEVE on this topic is clarity. I went to a concert recently. Some very fine players were performing. Whenever a fast passage was played you heard the SHAPE of the run, but not the NOTES. (Okay here goes) Many people believe that the tuba is not capable of being a solo intstrument - and these players JUST PROVED IT. A trumpet player would NEVER be allowed to get away with something like that. Yes, it takes more work to have clarity, so get over it and DO THE WORK. Tuba players, like Nascar drivers (except Jeff Gordon) don't Enunciate. Let's show the world that we can play with clarity, dammit.

I'm done now.

[JayW]

With no names revealed, while in college we had a composer write a piece for the concert band, he wrote a pretty insane part in terms of range and technique... when asked about the part he exclaimed " well I didnt really know what you guys could do, so I just wrote what I thought sound good, but you can change whatever you dont want to/cant play"..... needless to say my section members and I dropped our jaws.

[Rick Denney]

I believe there is a great shortage of music composed for tuba. Too much music that is written for tuba, however, is intended to stretch the instrument into ranges and technical displays that are not what the tuba is about, which is sound. Thus, the biggest lack is of music that allows musicians to be expressive using a tuba, even those musicians at lower levels who lack technical wizardry. A tuba played in the extreme upper register only sounds high to tuba players, and the audience doesn't appreciate the difficulty (unless there is visible loss of blood, of course). I feel the same way about string bass players who attempt cello works--it sounds better on the cello.

We play a lot of music intended for other instruments simply because that is all that is out there. Sometimes, the result is deeply musical and satisfying, but it would be so played on nearly any instrument, if played well. We don't have much solo music that would only sound right if played on a tuba.

But I'm not sure what a solo work that is all about sound such that it could only sound right on the tuba would be like. And not knowing the answer to that is why I'm not a composer. But I don't think someone has to be a tuba player to know that answer.

Rick "who thinks most composers of great works for other instruments were not players of those instruments" Denney

[jmh3412]

I agree with Rick - good tuba compositions should stand on their own musical merits. Technically demanding and virtuosi passages are fine, but if the only reason for inclusion is to demonstrate technical dexterity, this is only one step up from the air and variations beloved of the older brass band generation.It is all too easy to concentrate on difficult passages to the detriment of musicality and an artistically coherent performance

As regards arrangements, I have no problem with these.My pupils play a range of baroque rep. which not only helps with tone production, pitching and phrasing, but because this rep also highlights the need for a sound understanding of the harmonic framework which underpins the pieces.

New music - I've yet to be convinced by a lot of the present repertoire. I suppose this comes down to the same argument as Rick - Sound and integrity beiong the most important considerations.

[Biggs]

I apologize for what I am about to say, as it may get me lynched in this community. While I think the tuba has a wonderful sound and incredible, oft-undiscovered capabilities, I cannot deny the general statement that the tuba is unpopular. Due to their tessitura, tubas often fill an accompanying role, particularly when compared to instruments like trumpet or violin (I feel this stems from the nature of the sound - tuba does not resemble human voice and consequently is a pretty alien noise). Consequently, few people have heard the tuba being featured. Arnold Jacobs once said that the challenge of being an accompanying instrument is to create our own challenges, since literature is so limited. I.e. by playing trumpet music, arias, whatever else we come across. In addition, most people are unaware that the tuba can play jazz, rock, and other popular forms of music. I happen to love classical music, but I can understand that many do not. Therefore, tuba is an obscure instrument playing music that often does not reach the masses (the challenges facing euphonium are even greater). For all these reasons and more, the tuba is not very marketable. Since most composers are trying to make a living, compositions featuring unpopular, unmarketable instruments like tubas are few and far between for the simple reason that there is little money in the line of writing tuba music. Essentially, what I am trying to get across in this rambling response is that composers know what a tuba can do, they just don't care. Granted, notable exceptions exist but this is just a hypothesis. I may be totally off the mark but in my musical travels thus far I have failed to see proof otherwise.

[Doug@GT]

I apologize for what I am about to say, as it may get me lynched in this community.

I agree with most of what you said. The main exception would be your comparison with the human voice. I'd argue just the opposite, that the tuba/euph sound is the most like the human voice, and therefore deemed expendible.

i.e., you can't sing a jazz song and sound like a trombone, but a good bass singing Ol' man river sounds just like a tuba.

Doug "who finds the differing opinions fascinating"

[hurricane_harry]

as a student player the pet peeve i have with compositions is the sheer inconsistancy with the music difficulty, and this isn't even the composer its whoever came up with the system they use for the dificulty of music. for example bolaro from blast is all quarter notes 2-3 min in. in fact 2-3 min in i done even use any valves. i looked at the score and it was a level five piece. a few days ago my band director decided to chalenge his low brass section by giving us this spanish march (the name of the piece excapes me) and we have mostly 16th note runs and some REAL funcky rythms, by far the most challenging piece i've ever seen aside from the all-state audition piece. again a level five piece. i know this is a bit off topic but, in my opinion, if you gonna compose a level five piece then compose a level five piece. i feel as if im in a remedial class sometimes when i goto band.

[dtemp]

I have a friend and fellow student composing a piece for my recital. He writes in a very erratic 20th century style, so as you can suppose my technique will be challenged a little. What really meant a lot was that he came to me with scribbles of music asking me "will this work?". Since he's a sax player he's not real familiar with the tuba and it's capabilities. I thought it was great that he cared enough to see what I thought as the performer.

My two cents.

[Rick Denney]

...Essentially, what I am trying to get across in this rambling response is that composers know what a tuba can do, they just don't care. Granted, notable exceptions exist but this is just a hypothesis. I may be totally off the mark but in my musical travels thus far I have failed to see proof otherwise.

Lynched? Not by me. And no aplogy necessary.

I was buying some high-end stereo speakers many years ago, and the proprietor of the store asked me to bring some of my favorite recordings. I brought one that I'd been listening to at the time, which was Bob Stewart's First Line Band (if I'm remembering that title correctly).

The guy at the store asked me why I brought that album. I told him I'd been listening to it a lot and knew what to expect of its sound. He saw right through that bit of BS and reiterated his question. Finally, I admitted that I was a tuba player, and then he understood.

We all think Bob Stewart is one of the greats, but the rest of the world, even those quite sophisticated on the jazz scene, think of him as something from the bizarre fringe (and not bizarre in a good way).

We talked about this a few weeks ago in the thread about a joint commission. If we are going to bring the tuba into the fold of accepted solo instruments, the music has to be extraordinary, because we coming from waaaaaay behind.

The Carnival of Venice won't do it.

Actually, of the stuff I've heard, the tuba solo that I think is most representative of the tuba sound is the Jabba the Hut solo that Chester Schmitz recorded on the "Out of this World" recording (was that Philips?) with the Boston Pops. That's the one work I can think of that just would not be the same on any other instrument. But I've never heard it actually in the movie, so it remains buried.

Rick "recalling the response of his wife's friends when she announced that we would have a tuba solo at our wedding--'A tuba?'" Denney

[tubatooter1940]

Tuba may unpopular with composers,but not with the plain folks who respond when they hear tuba played with enthusiasm and speed.As stated by the forum before me,music for trumpet and especially,flute lies well across the tuba."Swinging Shepard Blues",a pop tune for flute,sounds great on a tuba.Although the high range gets too mellow on tuba, solos can be played at midrange and lower to get a sound that cuts thrugh.
Due to larger valves,a tuba is a little slower than trumpet-but not much slower.In public we should deny that there is any difference in speed.
Rather than carp about lack of music written for tuba,we should play any thing that grabs our imagination and the resulting enthusiasm will win us converts.
tubatooter1940