Circular breathing

[Uncle Buck]

The "Composers and Tuba" thread got me thinking about circular breathing (considering certain Tchaikovsky passages that, to anyone who is telling the truth, are impossible to play without circular breathing).

What's the conventional wisdom about this? Can ANYONE learn circular breathing, with enough effort? Is there anyone out there who has unsuccessfully put in significant time trying to learn the technique? (If so, are you willing to admit it?) Anyone who learned it easily? Anyone who learned the technique, but only after a ton of time and work?

Put me in the category of someone who tried to work on it a little, but gave up too quickly.

[Tubadork]

YES,
anyone can learn, it's really not that hard.

I can tell you from experience that circular breathing isn't very effective on the tuba. It requires too much air

uhhhhh..... nope, I use it all the time. I will give you that if you have to play a CCC at FFF for 2 minutes, circular breathing will not help. But, it has tons of applications. Don Harry does it all the time on Bach Cello Suites.

Bill Pritchard

[Dylan King]

I know from experience that it is impossible for some people. If you have a very small nose, small cheeks, and unusually large tongue like me, you can't do it!

Frankly I don't really care.

[bigboom]

I had a friend who was a freshman in high school who could do it, of course he had played the bagpipges for a few years before this point, but he could still do it. He had a lot of trouble doing his circular breathing on any note below the staff and couldn't do it while he was marching but he was great to tune to once he learned how to keep it steady. He tried to teach me and I sure have a lot of trouble even attempting it and have more pressing matter to put my practice time towards at this point, but it probably can't hurt to learn. good luck

Ben

[Anterux]

I never had teacher. but I can do it in mid and high range. low notes under the staff I cant yet.

I started to pratice with a cigarrette (without lighting it ) or something that causes some pressure to the air.

It worked for me...

[Adam C.]

My thoughts on circular breathing on tuba:

1. Not really necessary.
2. Almost always detracts from the music.
3. If you have a runny nose you might drown.

[Tubadan]

Practice it with water. Fill your cheeks with water and spit it like a fountain while breathing in through your nose. I think this is the easiest way to learn.

[Lew]

I have tried using all of the suggested techniques, just because I thought it would be fun. The booklet that came with my didgeridoo gave instructions about learning by using a straw. I am one person for whom it just seems hopeless to be able to learn it. I don't think that I could do it no matter how much more I may try.

[Leland]

viewtopic.php?t=2504&highlight=circular

[MartyNeilan]

I always thought of it as a parlor trick, but my former teacher Don Harry is a big proponent of it and taught me how. I believe another poster already mentioned something along these lines. Personally, I almost never use it - but maybe I should!

[Jobey Wilson]

Wow...I'm quite shocked at all the negative comments on circular breathing...I hate the word "gimmick"...commonly used in place of, "I can't do it right." Once mastered, it's a priceless tool; ESPECIALLY for tubists. Forget about holding out the D forever in Mahler 1...Imagine being able to carry longer phrases in Prokofiev 5, playing the entire ascending sequence leading into L in Meistersinger without break, seamless Mahler 2 chorale & actually ending the chorale with a huge Fp crescendo (without breaking the G) and still having PLENTY of air for a well supported pp C at the end, Mahler 6 chorale, extended phrases in Bruckner...just to name a few. It has become an essential tool for me in quintet...I can turn a long phrase exactly as the trumpets do, matching them better because I can circular breathe. I can make more beautiful music with circular breathing...imagine the longest phrases in Rochut. It IS possible to do it without the extra sounds & pitch bends; it just takes an effecient technique & ALOT of work...an everyday project at first.

[Chuck(G)]

I'm curious about the circular breathers who use it in performance. What do you do when you have a head cold?

[Leland]

I'm curious about the circular breathers who use it in performance. What do you do when you have a head cold?

You can't get a head cold.


The tubist with Boston Brass a few years ago said that he got to know decongestants & nasal sprays really well. He would play bass lines that lasted for a couple minutes, too, using circular breathing and sniff breathing (which is another controversial technique).

Any technique that generates debate -- circular breathing, sniff breathing, false tones -- seems "controversial" only because it's not taught in Tuba Method Book I in middle school. I say, if it works, USE IT.

[Anterux]

sniff breathing?
what is that?

[Tubadork]

Sniff breathing is just that,
sniffing in quickly through the nose, I use it sometimes on passages with short notes that goes on forever (bass line, short ride etc...)
When I have a cold,
well, it kinda sucks, but I do keep nasal spray in my backpack, at home I have a small steam inhaler. But, it's been a really long time (ie. I can't remember when) I had my nose stuffed up too much to circular breath because I can usually can breath out of at least one nostril at one time.
I personally use it all the time in quintet and tuba quartet and solos and I think it really helps and it's not much louder than a mouth breath. What can be distracting for the audience is that if it's a really, really long phrase I might have to take more sniffs than I would if I took one mouth breath, so you'll hear the sniff more often. And a trombone player in my last band used to make fun of me for it, he'd start sniffing like crazy to try to make me laugh!
I think with anything you do it has to be done tastefully and never get in the way of the music. To hear someone do it well live can be an amazing experience. I think it can be a very effective tool for musical expression. Bill Pritchard

[winston]

.

[TubaRay]

I do not, and cannot, circular breathe. That being said, to compare it to triple tonguing, and to go further and call triple tonguing only useful for showing off, is going pretty far.

Although triple tonguing is not one of my strengths, I believe it to be a very useful tool in daily playing. Perhaps circular breathing is also. I can certainly see where it could be.

To make a very general statement, I believe that tuba players spend their practice time learning the things they feel are most important to be learned. If they are under the guidance of a teacher, that teacher MAY have some effect on what they choose is important. But in the final analysis, the individual decides what is important to him/her. For me, circular breathing never reached a high enough priority. I do not consider it to be one of the basic skills necessary to play tuba. Triple tonguing, on the other hand, should probably be considered a basic skill.

[Leland]

As I said in the thread I linked, I didn't use circular breathing to show off when I was on euph and the only other euph player was worthless. I had to do it to keep the line going.

One of my fellow students (saxophone, in this case) made good use of it in his senior recital -- not for showing off, but out of necessity. I only knew that he was doing it because I could see it in his cheeks. He sounded just fine, and he's in the Offutt USAF band now.

If you only do it to show off, then that's all it's good for. If you actually USE it, then it's a tool.

It's still hard to do it on tuba.