Alexander historical photos and more

[Ted Cox]

I thought some of you fellow tubenet fans might enjoy some interesting Alexander photos. This is my first time attempting to use photobucket, so I'll hope to make this work. I hope you enjoy these photos and my commentary.


http://s1150.photobucket.com/albums/o619/tedcox240/" target="_blank" target="_blank

Ted

[Ben]

Thanks for posting Ted!

[Ted Cox]

No Jim, no tenor tubas. Instruments are produced when ordered, so there isn't any inventory lying around. They have a room at the manufacturing facility where the finished instruments are stored for play testing and then shipping and I didn't see a one; nor a finished tuba for that matter. There was an F tuba being made for someone in Japan. About 80 French Horns are produced each month and every one of them is already sold before being produced. As to your last question, I'm doing great. Living the dream!
your friend of 33 years, (yes, 33!)
Ted

[Heavy_Metal]

+1... thanks, Ted.

[hbcrandy]

Thank you for the great photos. Over the years, I have owned 2 Alexander tubas. Through your photos, I finally saw where they were made.

[skeath]

Thanks for that! My first CC tuba was an Alexander 163, c. 1969 or 1970. It was 4 valve, but they made me a 5th valve assembly at the factory and shipped it to me. Every player who ever played that horn offered to buy it.

I played it hard for 30 years, and finally wore out the valve bushings.



SK

[arminhachmer]

I hope you enjoy these photos and my commentary.

YES indeed Ted. Thank You. I was born and raised 20 miles from Mainz and just had to get myself an old Alex
from Lee Stofer. The pot roast...Sauerbraten ( maybe?) looks just too good. I had a month in Germany last September and enjoyed the food, the beer and the hospitality of several community band in the area. Also managed a visit to the Alex store as well as a tour of the new plant near Mainz.
Thanks for sharing,
Armin

[Ted Cox]

By far the most viewed photos I posted were of my 3 Alex's. So, I added four more photos for you to enjoy. One photo of a new Alex CC and a double F/CC tuba. I posted the front side, back side and a shot of the valve cluster of the double tuba. I actually enjoyed playing the double tuba. I played the new 6 valve F I'm photographed with along side the double F and I honestly couldn't tell you which one I liked better. If I absolutely had to pick, I just might go with the double tuba. I explain how it works on one of the photos. It's similar to a compensating euphonium, but had a pretty spirited discussion about just that point and ended up agreeing with my friend at Alexander that it was indeed a double tuba. It is for sale.

[Mark E. Chachich]

Ted,

Thank you for posting the photographs.

Mark (Alexander 163 since 1975)

[Wyvern]

Thanks for posting.

Do you find the nickel-silver on that 1964 CC makes a big difference to the sound?

[Ted Cox]

Neptune, Thank you for your question. To answer in a word, yes, there is a significant difference in sound with the nickel silver vs. brass. Trying to describe that difference isn't so easy to do. One of my former students, Jeff Baker, has probably played my nickel Alex more than anyone else. Jeff is also an Alex guy. He describes it as "an Alex on steroids." This is about the best description I've heard. The sound is clear, dark, thick and it projects. You can play quite loud on the horn without the sound ever distorting. It will take everything you can give. I feel extremely fortunate to own this rare instrument. My brass Alex is quite good and there's about one note more in tune on it. However, the nickel horn plays better in the upper range and extreme lower range than the brass Alex. We performed Lohengrin last year at this time and I played it all on the nickel Alex. Most people might play the higher passage on an F, but the nickel Alex worked just fine. Clear and in tune.

Anton Alexander, Philipp Alexander's father, said he would have to bring gifts to the men making the nickel silver tubas because the alloy was much more difficult to work with than brass. I suspect his gifts ran out after 5 of these tubas. All the tubing had to be bent by hand. I've only seen two other nickel Alex's; one belonging to Michael Lind in the mid 80's and another CC, which was in pretty tough shape. It's somewhere out there; probably in a closet. I've never seen another nickel tuba from any other maker.

Last year I played all of our Nutcracker performances on my brass Alex, except the last one, which I took my nickel horn. Our bass trombonist sits in front of me in the pit due to space limitations turned around and said, "I see what you mean." It's a different sound, it's my sound. I really appreciate the comments, questions and interest in all things Alexander. I'm trying to get Alexander to make a couple of tubas, F and CC to bring to a tuba conference someday soon. I told them people would be lined out the door waiting to play them.

One more thing. To get a new Alex, you have to order one. They require a deposit, not the full amount and they will build it how you like. If it turns out that you don't like it, you won't be stuck with it.
All the best to everyone!
Ted

[J.c. Sherman]

I've been considering a custom Alex... one thing that has made me wonder is that I've seen the new bells are a) 2-piece and b) equipped with a soldered wreath c) not made in-house anymore. Is it possible to order one with an unsoldered traditional wreath with a traditional v-cut bell? I wonder.

An Alex F with a compensating valve section would be something worth saving for if it had this option... especially with a nickel-silver bell!

[Ted Cox]

J.c., Alexander stopped making bells with the gusset around 1975. This is a good indicator as to whether or not any Alex is older or younger than 1975. My brass Alex was represented as a circa 1960-something Alex when I bought it. It's 1980. This is a good general piece of information to know when thinking about buying an old Alex. A very small serial number will be found on the top plate of the second valve for Alex's 1975 and older; although I would caution you that even this number is not all that reliable in dating the instrument as Alex valve sections are outsourced, so who knows how long a valve section has been sitting around in the shop. In contrast, Miraphone serial numbers are far more reliable in dating the instrument.

I saw some manufacturer was touting their bells being made the traditional way with the gusset and they showed a picture. I thought about writing them and telling them that what they were advertising was hardly the way these bells used to be made. The gusset will go from the edge of the bell down about 7 inches in a V shape. Bells today have a seam around the circumference about six inches in from the rim of the bell. It's "romantic" to think the "old way" is the better way, but unless you have both types of bells to put on the same horn, I doubt you could determine which is better.

I asked Philipp Alexander about how tubas are made today vs. how they were made back in "the day." He said they are still made the exact same way, with the only difference being the raw materials. The manufacturing of the brass used by Alexander today is produced to a much higher standard and quality control. The new 163 I played at the store played just like my 163's.

As for the double tuba, the one they have sitting in the store I'm sure is still for sale and I'm sure they would give you deal just to move it out of the store. I'm sure they would buff it out and laquer it if you wanted a new looking tuba. It's interesting and it played nice, but the design is a lot of work and trouble for 6 notes. Trying to play anything on the CC side simply doesn't work. A six valve F, the model 157 would offer you far more fingering possibilites from top to bottom. As for a nickel silver bell, that's not an option. If I were to order a new F, I would certainly want 6 valves and have it made in Gold Brass as opposed to yellow brass.

Good luck J.c. in which ever direction you go with an F tuba. There are so many choices these days. Find the sound YOU want to make.
Ted

[oedipoes]

Not Alex, but old-style bell anyway...

[Ben]

My 163 from 1957 does not have the "V" cut bell, instead it is appears to be a two piece bell, the stack, with a perpendicular "suture" where the classic V is. Any clue or logic for this? I have confirmed from three sources (Gebr. Alexander and two former owners) that this horn is from the '50s... I will post some better pics later tonight, but for reference, I can point you here. You can see one of the seems well in the firs two pics.

Thoughts?

[Ted Cox]

Ben,

My best guess is this. The valves are outsourced. I can't recall the company who builds the valve sections for Alexander, but having someone else do this specific work makes sense. The quality would be quite high. I suspect the bells in the 50's, even today are outsourced. Perhaps the company that was making bells for Alexander at that specific time made their bells the way they are made today, with a horizontal seam. Perhaps Alexander changed companies, hiring someone else to make their bells, and they made them with the gusset; or perhaps the manufacturer was experimenting with a different way and that's what ended up on your tuba. It's so hard to get an exact date when our horns were built, especially without a serial number. My 64 Alex has on the reciever, Made in W. Germany, so we know for certain it was made after the Berlin wall went up in August of 1961. My Alex F which I know for certain was bought as early as 62 has no indication as to "made in W. Germany", so I have a feeling it might have been built before the Berlin wall, but not sold until 62 or 63. That's just speculation on my part, but sometimes that's the best we can do. No matter, you have a great old Alex that should be loved and played.
Ted

[Ben]

FYI, this is the inside of my 163 bell, I've always thought it was atypical...

It is a fun horn. Cheers

[J.c. Sherman]

Ted, thank you for that very informative post. Much of which, I'll admit, was not new to me, but the dating was. I do wonder why such a noted, respected maker would farm out their parts; but I can't really complain

The desire to try a compensating F comes from my "upbringing" on an Eb Boosey & Hawkes Imperial (also with a bell made the old way). I have my own bias for the "old" way, admittedly, and especially with the turned Kranz rather than the soldered. But the idea of a 5 valve double is a little too much for me... I'd rather a 4 valve system with a thumb actuated "CC" valve. Again, something of a "dream", but a man can dream, right?

I may go back to a more "normal" 5 valver Alex F but the dream would be to talk to the bell maker and perhaps make the rest on my own

J.c.S.

(Then again maybe I need that F a try... or one like it; It's not to play it as a double, but for surer intonation in the lower end... plus some options ; )