Mouthpiece for a valve trombone/flugabone

[Levaix]

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree here, but I might as well ask. I just bought the Olds marching trombone from the classifieds, so I'm once again on the great mouthpiece hunt. Right now my only small shank mouthpiece is the Kelly 6 1/2 AL that I play in my bell front baritone, so that's what I've been using. I could use a little more "pow" factor, though, and so far the general consensus for these horns is that something more like a 12C would be a better fit. I tried out a Bach 12C, and while it was better, it was a bit stuffy.

So here's what I'm looking at now:

Laskey 46C and 48C
Bach Artisan 11C
Ferguson 11 (kind of pricey...)

Anyone have any impressions on these? Or recommendations for something else?

[nycbone]

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[modelerdc]

The wick 7cs works very well with valves trombones and bass trumpets. Free blowing and voiced to give some color to the sound. Try it!

[Ace]

I have a kick-butt Jupiter valve trombone in C. The instrument was supplied with a generic 12C, but I did not find the timbre I wanted. After trying several other mouthpieces, I settled on the miracle (for me) mouthpiece, a Schilke 40.
YMMV.

Ace

[Levaix]

Unfortunately, there aren't really any shops around here that carry more than one of the mouthpieces I'm looking at so far. I would do the order thing, but even if I'm looking at three mouthpieces that's several hundred dollars. On my current income it's just not feasible. I'm expecting a bit of a bonus in a few weeks, so maybe I'll do it at that point.

bloke, I definitely understand the thing about differently sized instruments. I've played concerts on everything from trumpet down to tuba. The 12C just wasn't quite right. I understand you were developing a bass trumpet mouthpiece; whatever happened to that? (Yes, I'm going to continue asking about all the obscure mouthpieces you're working on.)

Not sure why, but Schilke mouthpieces never really hit it for me. I actually really like Denis Wick mouthpieces (I play a classic 3AL on my euphonium), but I'm looking for something different than the Wick sound for this particular horn. I definitely want a little bit of bite (or sizzle, or whatever you want to call it). Having just played a full session with my 6 1/2 AL, I can definitely verify something smaller is going to work better for what I'm going for. Fun horn so far, though!

Thanks for the feedback so far!

[gregsundt]

Not sure why, but Schilke mouthpieces never really hit it for me. I actually really like Denis Wick mouthpieces (I play a classic 3AL on my euphonium), but I'm looking for something different than the Wick sound for this particular horn.

Schillkes generally have a smaller throat than others, including Bach and Wick. That may be the rub, since you would tend to pump a lot of air. I have that same issue with my small shank 52D.

Given the lack of retail "try before you buy" availability, buy used (EBay, Trombone Forum, etc.) and give it a few weeks before making a decision. It takes longer, and you may have to do a few horse trades before you land on the one, but your long-term results should be satisfactory.

FWIW, I love the 11C on my King 2B...

[imperialbari]

Denis Wick 7C

V. Bach 9

[Levaix]

Just went over to the shop where I get my repairs done and tried a few pieces. I was actually pretty surprised at the results.

Laskey 48C was a little too "nice" sounding. It had a bit of zing, but it was polite zing. I could see it being a great piece if you want a sweeter jazz sound or use a small shank trombone in a large ensemble. Would probably be very good for a bass trumpet in an orchestra. (Maybe that or the 50C would be good for baritone, as well.)

The guy at the counter pulled a Schilke 46 off the shelf for me to try, and it was actually really good. My second favorite of the bunch.

They didn't have the new Bach Artisan in an 11C like I wanted to try, but he had it in 7C. WOW! This is not your typical Bach. Very powerfully resonant. The rep turned and looked when I started playing that one. If anyone here plays a standard Bach small shank, I'd highly recommend checking this line out. From what I had already read ahead of time, the Artisan mouthpieces are a different design and not just a new exterior, and I can definitely attest to that. The cup was still a little big for this horn; some of the high notes were flat compared to the other pieces (another surprise in itself). The general consensus among the trombone forums seems to be that a 7C is something like a larger 12C, and the 11C is more similar to the 6 1/2 AL. Still haven't gotten my hands on the 11C, but the 12C/7C relationship seems to hold true. So I'll be ordering the Artisan 11C.

[Lingon]

correct about rim width, but about shape and behaviour the 12c/7c and 11c/6.5al are closely related

[Levaix]

eh...

Bach sizes are true to their numbers. 11C is closer to 12C.

7, cup width-wise, is closer to 6-1/2, but a 7C cup (and throat) is more similar to an 11C/12C cup/throat than a 6-1/2AL cup/throat.

Ah! Lingon beat me to it! Oh well, I already typed it up...

I actually found a few trombonists on various forums that mentioned design similarities (not related to size) between the 12C and 7C, and 6 1/2 AL and 11C. The general consensus is that the 12C and 7C are more of a bowl cup, while the 6 1/2 AL and 11C taper the shoulders off a bit more. This is all second-hand and not really my own argument to make, but having compared the 12C and 7C, they are definitely "brothers."

Either way, the 12C was just a bit too tight, and the 7C was a smidge too big, so 11C it is! And if I don't like it when it gets here, my local store has the 7C in stock.