Conn J25?

[Closetgeek]

Ok, the amateur is back with questions.

The Band Director once more explained to the unwashed masses (parents) how much the instruments are the kids are playing with.
The price for the Sousaphones has dropped in the last 3 years (LOL) but he keeps insisting that the tuba (a 1950s model, on loan from a different school) is 25k to replace. Model number above...

Can you help a gal out, wrapping her head around this?
I think I remember he said it was a Conn J25.

I take any and all information in this regard to cure my ignorance.

Thanks everybody for your patience.

[nycbone]

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[Donn]

What exactly is the question? Do you intend to buy a sousaphone? Are you trying to determine your liability for a loaner sousaphone? In the latter case, if we give you a number for value of some instrument, how will that help?

[Closetgeek]

What exactly is the question? Do you intend to buy a sousaphone? Are you trying to determine your liability for a loaner sousaphone? In the latter case, if we give you a number for value of some instrument, how will that help?

Well, It would be of course sweet to tell the director that he can take the horn back to the owner, cos we bought our own. The band is great, getting accolates all over the place, but we are in a tiny community with not much of a financial reserve. I think throwing numbers like that at the parents gets them shell shocked.
We will have to buy another sousaphone for next marching season, the deflation of price was rather incidental though.

The school has so far a good rapport with the repair people. And the Tubas do generally not leaving the school.

What is a comparable tuba to the J25? (I am assuming the school that owns the instrument will want it back eventually)

[groovlow]

Confusion with model numbers and $K ?
It is nice to have matching sousaphones.
4 new brass sousaphones would be in the 25K range
4 tubas around the same

thanks for supporting music in the schools
good luck
Joe

[Heavy_Metal]

The correct model designation is 25J. Conn's model numbers are almost always a set of numbers followed by a letter. The letter designates the type of instrument: J is a tuba, K is a sousaphone etc.

The 25J is a large, four-valve, top-action BBb tuba having a removable upright bell. The 24J has the same body but comes with a recording (front-facing) bell (they are interchangeable). The three-valve versions are the 21J (upright bell) and 20J (recording bell). All of these have "short-action" piston valves in which the ports are oval-shaped to reduce the length of the stroke to about what you'd find on a good rotary-valve tuba. This helps if you have short fingers like mine.

There were also front-action tubas in this series: 22J (3-valve, recording bell), 23J (3-valve, upright bell) 26J (4-valve, recording bell) and 27J (4-valve, upright bell). None of the 2xJ series is still in production as far as I know, but good used ones often turn up on eBay. The 20J is by far the most common.

All of these tubas are noticeably more conical than the ones we typically see in schools. This means that there is more of a difference between the size ("bore") of the tubing as it leaves the mouthpiece receiver, and the size of the tubing at the bell. You can get a lot of volume from a 2xJ without edging it out (overblowing and causing distortion)- ask me how I know that There is also a marching band that uses 20Js, likely for the same reason, and their tuba section even has its own home page: http://20j.marchingsoutherners.org/Home.html" target="_blank" target="_blank

King, Olds, Reynolds and others made similar tubas back in the day, so these might be viable alternatives if you want this type of tuba. But if you're planning to play in college and beyond, look at what is (today) considered a professional-level horn.

[Closetgeek]

The correct model designation is 25J. Conn's model numbers are almost always a set of numbers followed by a letter. The letter designates the type of instrument: J is a tuba, K is a sousaphone etc.

The 25J is a large, four-valve, top-action BBb tuba having a removable upright bell. The 24J has the same body but comes with a recording (front-facing) bell (they are interchangeable). The three-valve versions are the 21J (upright bell) and 20J (recording bell). All of these have "short-action" piston valves in which the ports are oval-shaped to reduce the length of the stroke to about what you'd find on a good rotary-valve tuba. This helps if you have short fingers like mine.

There were also front-action tubas in this series: 22J (3-valve, recording bell), 23J (3-valve, upright bell) 26J (4-valve, recording bell) and 27J (4-valve, upright bell). None of the 2xJ series is still in production as far as I know, but good used ones often turn up on eBay. The 20J is by far the most common.

All of these tubas are noticeably more conical than the ones we typically see in schools. This means that there is more of a difference between the size ("bore") of the tubing as it leaves the mouthpiece receiver, and the size of the tubing at the bell. You can get a lot of volume from a 2xJ without edging it out (overblowing and causing distortion)- ask me how I know that There is also a marching band that uses 20Js, likely for the same reason, and their tuba section even has its own home page: http://20j.marchingsoutherners.org/Home.html" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

King, Olds, Reynolds and others made similar tubas back in the day, so these might be viable alternatives if you want this type of tuba. But if you're planning to play in college and beyond, look at what is (today) considered a professional-level horn.

Sweet! thank you.
That was a very comprehensive explanation.

But at this time I am looking at tubas from 'back in the day'?
What is a modern manufacturer (not from China)?
I am guessing new I am looking at the 25k?

No, I do not expect to play any time soon - I am the untalented band mom

JSU is 'our' college, several of our graduates are marching there. (I am looking forward to the next band day they will be hosting in September)

[Dan Schultz]

But at this time I am looking at tubas from 'back in the day'?
What is a modern manufacturer (not from China)?
I am guessing new I am looking at the 25k?...

Unless Conn/Selmer has introduced something new I don't know about.... there is no such animal as a 25K.

The 'K' designation would be for a sousaphone. There is still a short-action, three piston sousa branded 20K though.

[Heavy_Metal]

OK- that tells me where to send you. It would be well if your child could actually play some tubas before you plunk down your cash. One of the better music stores I know of, Mid-South Music, is in the Memphis area, which is a good day-trip from the Birmingham area. The owner, Joe Sellmansberger, is a professional tuba player, and posts here under the nickname "bloke". I don't think he has a website, but Mid-South's info is on this page:

http://www.chisham.com/sponsors.html" target="_blank

You don't say how old your child is, or how long (s)he has played, but I'm sure Joe can help you out regardless, even if you're just looking for a good used horn. Tell him we sent you, and let us know how you make out.

[Closetgeek]

But at this time I am looking at tubas from 'back in the day'?
What is a modern manufacturer (not from China)?
I am guessing new I am looking at the 25k?...

Unless Conn/Selmer has introduced something new I don't know about.... there is no such animal as a 25K.

The 'K' designation would be for a sousaphone. There is still a short-action, three piston sousa branded 20K though.

I apologize...we had a Jamboree game last night and I am still tired and tend to write shorthand. $25.000, to purchase a tuba.

[Heavy_Metal]

$25.000, to purchase a tuba.

I think if this is the figure you had in mind, you will be very pleasantly surprised.

[nycbone]

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[nycbone]

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[Closetgeek]

Wow, heated discussion.

I have to say that we are lucky to have a great director. Of course he does have his flaws, but we all do. I try to be fair to weigh his accomplishments against his shortcomings. He is an old fox, and while I can't speculate on his motives, the $25K isn't a 'mistake', the price has been repeated for the last 3 years.

As to the model name variation, that is my fault. I am learning though.

Thankfully, our band students are by in large respectful of the instruments, and while the parent involvement could be a lot better, we manage (band booster politics, oye veh...)

As a parent, I have still 2 more years of this, then maybe college? Considering our location (compared to the other place of employment the band director had before that, spending $30.000 was nothing there) we have to make the most of the money we do get. The township isn't rich my any means, the county has a lot of bands to feed and a hate-hate relationship with them, putting them last, behind the sports.
But we are blessed, our Principal supports the band the same as the other teams.

So, as the untalented grunt, I do what I can to help out: Bring ideas to raise funds, find ways to minimize cost.

Our Tubas (best picture I got)

[Closetgeek]

It looks good!

[Heavy_Metal]

That's not a 25J, since the bell points forward instead of straight up. If it has four valves it's a 24J, if three it's a 20J. Given that many school systems didn't want to spend the extra money for a 4-valve tuba, I'll go out on a limb and say it's a 20J. Still a very good horn, and good preparation for what they'll find at JSU.

Not sure what the other tuba is.

[Michael Bush]

Not sure what the other tuba is.

12J?

[Heavy_Metal]

Don't think it's a 12J. The 12J has a larger bell with a more gradual flare than that one, and the bell on the 12J rises higher above the upper bow.

http://www.conn-selmer.com/en-us/our-in ... tubas/12j/" target="_blank" target="_blank

The relationship of the bell to the upper bow looks Besson- or Yamaha-ish. It might be a King 1135, which is based on that design, but has front-action rather than top-action valves:

http://www.conn-selmer.com/en-us/our-in ... ubas/1135/" target="_blank" target="_blank

Or it might be a clone.

[Closetgeek]

That's not a 25J, since the bell points forward instead of straight up. If it has four valves it's a 24J, if three it's a 20J. Given that many school systems didn't want to spend the extra money for a 4-valve tuba, I'll go out on a limb and say it's a 20J. Still a very good horn, and good preparation for what they'll find at JSU.

Not sure what the other tuba is.

The tuba is owned by a large school in Georgia. They had a pretty good budget to buy stuff with, I gather from the anecdotes. I am trying to keep this as anonymous as possible, because I do NOT want to knock our director, and the music world is small and he is a good man!

But interesting.

The bells are interchangeable though?

[Heavy_Metal]

Right. Conn designed (IMHO) a very good basic horn and gave you a choice of upright or forward-tilting ("recording") bell. I have both, as you can see from my signature. Originally I got mine for outdoor performances where there is no acoustical shell, and as a backup for my Sonora which is a German upright model. It had the recording bell which made it a 20J. Later, I found an upright bell for it which I now use unless we're outdoors with no shell- it's a 21J in that configuration.

The upright bell blends in better with the rest of a section having upright bells, so it is preferred in that scenario.