Jarno #5 Reamer - Yes, again!

[Bacchanalia]

Does anybody know where I could actually purchase a Jarno #5 Taper Hand Reamer at anywhere near a reasonable price?

I've gone through ALL the posts on this here, but none of them have any help on WHERE to find this mystical hand tool other than to say that Feree's will custom make something.
Not sure why they sell the same tool for trumpet through trombone but not for tuba.
The local techs I've asked about enlarging the receiver on my Besson just look at me like I'm nuts.
And the web is not helping me out either...seems these are not all that common anymore and the ones that I've seen listed are ridiculously priced.

Anybody got a line on one of these?

[happyroman]

A Google search came up with this

http://www.newmantools.com/reamer/SchedulU1.htm" target="_blank

[Bacchanalia]

Yup...I saw that too. I'm still waiting on their reply from the price quote request. The price for a similar, non-tapered hand reamer of that size was around $85 and I'm guessing the tapered version will be more...guessing since the price for the Jarno tapered one wasn't on their site.

I was just hoping that one of the knowledgeable repair guys here might have the best/lowest priced supplier of this thing on "speed dial"

"The Auction Site" has a few different sizes of these, just not the one I need...and I've been looking there off and on for months. Even $85 seems a bit steep for something I'll use maybe twice in a lifetime.

[jsmn4vu]

See if this link leads to any alternatives. What you're looking for is a No. 2 Morse taper hand reamer, right? This isn't a hand reamer, but it could be turned into one:
http://www.amazon.com/Speed-Morse-Taper ... 822&sr=1-1" target="_blank" target="_blank

[Dan Schultz]

The problem with Morse taper reamers is that they don't overlap in sizes and just don't work well with tuba receivers. Since Morse tapers are catagorized by the diameters of the small and large end... and the length of the working body... the actual taper can conceivably vary a tiny bit due to manufacturing tolerances. The taper of a Jarno reamer is EXACTLY (well... within manufacturing tolerance) .050" per inch.

Whereas the Jarno #5 provides EXACTLY the size necessary to clean up or enlarge a regular shank tuba receiver.

Ferree's used to make (and may still) reamers specific to what end dimension a person wanted. They made them for trumpet size, euphonium size, and tuba size.

The Jarno #5 has a small end dimension of .500" and a taper of exactly .050" per inch.

The biggest problem with Morse reamers is they are normally too long on the small end and interfere with the bend in the leadpipe. You can buy Morse reamers and cut the end to suit or just take the receiver off the horn to clean it up. Of course... this last suggestion won't do you any good if you are working on some of the European horns where the receiver is a part of the leadpipe.

Here's the 'poop' on Jarno tapers: http://www.circuitousroot.com/artifice/ ... index.html

[Bacchanalia]

@TubaTinker - I think it was mostly your info from a previous thread on this that I was working from. I did find ONE morse reamer that looks to have the right taper (at least is was close enough at .049 by my calculations) but they want over a hundred bucks for it. Here's the one I think might work.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0VKT4H ... p=drivesdk

Am I even on the right track with this one? If this would work, I'll start searching for one of these at a decent price or even for auction.

And thanks to everyone who's offered help! This is a great workhorse of a horn, but it sure could use a better selection of mouthpieces.

Still seems like I should be able to buy a Jarno #5 somewhere out there at a decent price. It's only a small chunk of steel for Pete's sake

[Dan Schultz]

The reamer you noted will only deliver .517" on the big end and that's not large enough to make a regular shank tuba receiver. The next size up has a small end that's too large since the flutes don't cut on the end... only the sides.

These guys have a #7 Jarno at a descent price. That's waaay too large but you might check with them to see if they have a #5. http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/3113006737 ... rmvSB=true

The problem with trying to use Morse reamers for tuba receiver work isn't the rate of taper but the sizes don't overlap enough.

I don't recall what I paid for my Jarno #5 but at about any price it would be a bargain for as many times as I have used it. I don't know how many manufacturers there are for these but you can't beat the quality of Gammons-Hoagland.

[Bacchanalia]

I got a price from the Gammons Hoaglund folks for this part--the only Jarno they have now.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0VKT4H ... p=drivesdk

They want $85 plus shipping. Still seems like a lot to someone who's not in the repair business. The Ferree's reamers have nice T-handles built-in, but if they can't accommodate me with a tuba-sized one, I'll probably end up caving in and buying this one.

@TubaTinker, does this one look like the one you've been using for years?
Somehow I thought the helical shaped ones were only for hi-speed machining and the hand cranked ones had straight or slightly spiraled flutes. But what the heck do I know

[Dan Schultz]

..... @TubaTinker, does this one look like the one you've been using for years? ....

Yes. Mine has helical flutes.

Are you trying to change a small tuba receiver to a regular receiver?... or a regular to a European receiver? I hate to see you spend that kind of money for something you might never use again. Give me a call and let me know what you are trying to do. I don't use mine of a daily basis and might be willing to let you use it for a week or so. 812-457-2284.

[Doug Elliott]

Considering what good tools cost, and the fact that it's a special size that they probably never actually sell, I think you're lucky to find it for $85.

Helical flutes are less likely to chatter than straight flutes. And you definitely don't want chatter to start because it's almost impossible to correct it once it starts.

Good luck... reaming a receiver is not an easy job even under the best circumstances. You don't want any chips or debris ending up in the valves.

[Bacchanalia]

@Doug - yes, $85 is reasonable for a quality tool but I envision using this once so it still seems a bit high for a one-off - especially with my head still spinning from spending too much on DIY dent balls and fancy magnets yesterday

@Bloke - I wish I had your skillz man! For now I'll just have to be very slow and careful with the reamer (Thanks Dan!!) and give this old Bessie a serious snake/bath before putting the pistons back in. I'm going to strip what little lacquer there is off of it anyway so a bath was already in the plans. But since I have no soldering skills, the lead pipe is staying on the horn. Maybe one day I'll be competent enough for that sort of thing, but for now I'm just in the "Try not to tear it up while you're learning" stage

[Rick Denney]

Some old Bessons (including one that I messed with that was made in the 20's) did not use a receiver soldered on in the same that is done on American tubas. The receiver was just a tube (with an open seam) slipped over the mouthpipe and soldered in place. Trying to ream an old Besson receiver to fit a modern mouthpiece might cut through the mouthpipe part--care required. I do not now how Besson has done it since then.

And since I see Doug has entered this thread, he may recall from maybe a decade ago that he used his reamer to install a proper taper on the receiver of my York Master, which had no taper at all on in the receiver. He then turned one of his shanks down just a bit to fit it perfectly. Now, that made a bit of a difference!

Rick "measuring holes is hard" Denney

[Doug Elliott]

Another method that I did for somebody recently is to lap the receiver with grinding compound, using something I made that is essentially a brass shank that has the correct taper. It is time consuming but works well if it's already fairly close.

[Bacchanalia]

This one was made in the 70's - one of the thick-walled, "build it like a tank and little Johnny can't destroy it" 3 valve jobs with the massive, ridiculous ball attached to the bottom that either digs a hole in your leg or your chair depending on your height. Pretty similar to the horn I took home to learn on in high school back in the early 80's, only that one had the 3+1 and this is only the 3.

A few pics for no good reason:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0VKT4H ... cslist_api
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0VKT4H ... cslist_api
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0VKT4H ... cslist_api
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0VKT4H ... cslist_api
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0VKT4H ... cslist_api

That last pic shows how that "can't destroy it" thinking wasn't quite correct. But I imagine it took a fair bit of force to make that one. This thing is really solid. My plan is to strip the rest of the lacquer, de-dent a bit and see how it sounds with the right mouthpiece that's able to go more than a half inch in. I just tried a Ferguson CB Bone MP I bought from a fellow here which didn't sound too bad. Can't wait to try that on bass bone with a group ;0)

[Bacchanalia]

Here are few pics...

Receiver meets lead-pipe 1-1/2 inches in.

Is this the type of receiver I should avoid? Or is it one I can do with the reamer if I'm very careful?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0VKT4 ... sp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0VKT4 ... sp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0VKT4 ... sp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0VKT4 ... sp=sharing

Fixed the links...whoops.

[Dan Schultz]

..... Fixed the links...whoops.

I put the reamer in the mail to you just a bit ago. You should have it on Monday.

The helical flutes look a bit formidable at first glance but this reamer will not tend to 'dig in' or 'drive' itself into the receiver. About the only way it can get stuck is if you generate a lot of heat and then leave the reamer in the hole while things cool off. You shouldn't be doing that, anyway. There won't be enough heat to cause problems doing it by hand.

I mentioned on the phone that you'll need to verify that the small diameter of the receiver is at least .500" since that's the size of the small end of the reamer. If a 1/2" drill won't pass through, you'll need to very carefully open it up. If you do this... put some sort of stop on the drill so you'll only enter the depth of the receiver.

It has a 1/2" square shank. If you can get your hands on a large tap handle, that's the best way to get 'straight in' pressure. I've been known to turn it with a Crescent wrench but be aware of keeping the reamer straight. Remember that those flutes are actually to the left but the reamer cuts by turning it clockwise. Light oil will help it to cut but it still takes quite a bit of pressure to work at hand pressure. As someone mentioned... if the receiver is removable... the best way is to just take it off to do the work.

This should be an easy task. However... in the very worst case... you could always back off and just put an new receiver on the horn. Provided you don't completely twist the leadpipe in half!

I'm glad you called me on the phone yesterday. Sounds like you can handle this OK. I'm always reluctant to hand out information like this to 'first timers' but it sounded to me like you will know where to 'draw the line' if you have too.

[Bacchanalia]

@Dan, you're the man! Hey, that's got a nice ring to it ;O)

And yes, I plan to take this at a slow and cautious pace. Even if I can't comfortably get it opened up all the way to the same size as a normal "American Shank" receiver, it will still be a lot better than it is now. I'll take good care of your reamer and pop it back in the mail as soon as the job's done - no more than a day or so. Thankfully, my schedule got a lot lighter when Loyola's classes let out last Friday. So I'm already bored and looking for interesting projects. This one's been bugging me for quite awhile and I'm ready to "git 'er done" ;O)

Thanks so much for the advice and the loaner tool!

Right now I'm off to Lowe's to pick up a fresh can of WD-40 and a 1/2" tap handle with the biggest t-handle they've got ;O)

[Dan Schultz]

.... Right now I'm off to Lowe's to pick up a fresh can of WD-40 and a 1/2" tap handle with the biggest t-handle they've got ;O)

WD-40 isn't really a good lubricant. It's just a 'water-displacing' mix. Just use lamp oil or kerosene to do the reaming.

By-the-way... Harbor Freight will probably have a tap handle for less money!

Good luck!

[Bacchanalia]

Good thing I looked before walking out the door ;O)

Scratch the WD-40. Plus, I was about to tell you that we don't have a Harbor Freight...but after looking online, apparently we do...in a part of town I hardly ever go, but we do have one. So now I'm excited to see a new toy...uh, I mean tool store.

Thanks again for your help Dan.

And everyone else who has added to this thread, for that matter!

[Bacchanalia]

Well, Dan's reamer did a fine job of opening up that receiver. I might have been a little too conservative - or maybe just chicken ;O) - but I only pushed it to the point where an American shank MP goes in about .85". It's not quite as far as I wanted, but it's a huge improvement over the 1/4" or so where it started out. I just thought it was starting to look a little too thin around the outside to push it any further.

Thanks to everyone who helped me with the learning curve and especially Dan for trusting me with his Jarno #5!