When the Third Partial is Flat (Rather Than Slighty Sharp)

[Stephen Shoop]

It is normal for the third partial (F just below the bass clef staff) on a BBb tuba (also trumpet, trombone, and euphonium) to be about two cents sharp.... and usually easily to adjust. On occasion, that partial is flat (which I have found to be a more problematic issue). I taught at a school where there were three four-valve tubas.... same brand and model (Yamaha 641) with consecutive serial numbers. The third partial on one of those tubas was flat (rather than slightly sharp). Questions: (1) What might be the cause of the problem with this particular tuba, and (2) what solutions are available? Thanks.

[imperialbari]

The open 3rd partial tends flat on most brasses, whereas its fingered derivatives, especially 12, often tend sharp.

[cjk]

is the one with the flat 3rd partial appreciably different in the 18 inches or so immediately after the main tuning slide?

[Stephen Shoop]

No.

[cjk]

Have they been tested for leaks?
Are all the instrumets in good repair or do they look like school tubas?
Have they been cleaned lately? Maybe there is something stuck in there?
Retapering the first tapered part after the main tuning slide and the main tuning slide on a different tuba changed both the 3rd and fifth partials for me.

[Stephen Shoop]

These three tubas were brand new.

[Stephen Shoop]

I have also encountered this problem with several new Chinese tubas I have played recently.

[Matt Walters]

After 21 years of working on tubas, I believe I know the answer to your question. Something is different enough on that one horn to make it play noticeably different. Figuring out what that is however, takes work and you may never be able to fix it.

1) We aren't paying $100,000 or more for something made to Aircraft grade specifications. No two tubas will be EXACTLY the same.
2) All tubas have human assembly. That means all branches are sanded and buffed by hand which means variation in thickness. Being soldered by hand there will be different amounts of solder in assembly. If you weigh all of your tubas on an accurate scale, you will get different weights.
3) Often burrs are left where the branches are cut and soldered together under a ferrule. A little imperfection adds color or zip to the sound. However, a long enough burr can start to act like a tuning fork. If it vibrates at a wrong frequency, it will nudge the pitch. It is also possible that your 1 out of 4 tubas actually has less internal burrs instead of more.
4) There could be a mechanical thing like a subtle leak. Water key may not sit flat on to the nipple.
5) The main tuning slides likely have different bevels on the insides of the tubes. Can't flip it since the YBB-641 has different size tubing on each side. Try swapping main tuning slides to see if the problem moves from horn to horn.
6) The gap in the mouthpiece receiver or even leadpipe angle could be different and therefore affect your interaction with it causing you to buzz differently into the horn.
7) A tapered branch could have been cut shorter or longer and therefore be a different diameter at a nodal or anti-nodal point affecting that particular note.

The crazy thing I have learned over the years is that there is someone out there with a playing style that will actually play better and more in-tune with that one tuba that you think doesn't play as well.

[iiipopes]

The crazy thing I have learned over the years is that there is someone out there with a playing style that will actually play better and more in-tune with that one tuba that you think doesn't play as well.

+1 - to all the above. Another way to state the old adage - the player doesn't find a tuba; the tuba finds the player.

[Stephen Shoop]

Thanks Matt for the detailed answer. It all makes sense.