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French C Tuba

Postby danontuba » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:08 am

In a few days, I will be receiving a French C tuba to add to the collection. The instrument, made by Wessex, is based on a good french instrument from 1931 owned by Carl Kleinsteuber. If anyone is interested in this instrument, I encourage you to read his dissertation and see the videos below.

As I have not received it, I was curious if anyone has had a chance to play one and also if anyone can share a fingering chart for this particular instrument from Wessex. (at least where it begins to differ from a normal C tuba)
:tuba:


https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc984120/m1/?q=kleinsteuber

https://youtu.be/313HdaUj0iE

https://youtu.be/HGIux_7_baA
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Re: French C Tuba

Postby iattp » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:20 pm

I found this which has some fingerings

https://simonettitubacollection.com/ins ... 6-pistons/
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Re: French C Tuba

Postby J.c. Sherman » Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:48 pm

Tried one... it was fantastic beyond my hopes!

Now to find the scratch!

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Re: French C Tuba

Postby danontuba » Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:12 pm

iattp wrote:I found this which has some fingerings


These fingerings are for the original valve configuration. The Wessex French C tuba gave it a more "modern" valve configuration to make things easier. So, it will be different. As soon as I figure it out with the tuba, I will post here.

"Valves: 6 piston valves (regular lengths 1-4), flat tone 5th (adjustable to flat ½ tone), 6th valve puts down into F"
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Re: French C Tuba

Postby UncleBeer » Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:16 pm

Here's a fingering chart for the TC236 with a LONG (whole tone) 5th valve setup: http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=847 ... 7560797191" target="_blank

And here's a fingering chart for the same instrument with a SHORT (half step) 5th valve setup: http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=925 ... 8589571742" target="_blank

Hope this helps!
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Re: French C Tuba

Postby danontuba » Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:54 pm

Perfect!!! Thank you, UncleBeer!!
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Re: French C Tuba

Postby Snake Charmer » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:26 am

And welcome to the CETPAFCTOC (Crazy-enough-to-play-a-french-c-tuba-owners-club)! 8)
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Re: French C Tuba

Postby Snake Charmer » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:33 am

And for all members of this club I recommend the use of the ErgoBrass support. It is really difficult to hold these 4.5 kgs of compact plumbing without any finger left! It is not really cheap but worth every dime, you can find it on
http://www.ergobrass.com" target="_blank
The euphonium plate fits perfect onto the Wessex, and will fit most other models as well. With this you can enjoy a hovering horn...stressless!
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Re: French C Tuba

Postby J.c. Sherman » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:03 pm

danontuba wrote:
iattp wrote:I found this which has some fingerings


These fingerings are for the original valve configuration. The Wessex French C tuba gave it a more "modern" valve configuration to make things easier. So, it will be different. As soon as I figure it out with the tuba, I will post here.

"Valves: 6 piston valves (regular lengths 1-4), flat tone 5th (adjustable to flat ½ tone), 6th valve puts down into F"


The 3rd can also be pulled to the traditional 2-tone pitch, as well as the 5th being able to be configured to the "Transpositeaur" (sp?).
Instructor of Tuba & Euphonium, Cleveland State University
Principal Tuba, Firelands Symphony Orchestra
President, Variations in Brass
http://www.jcsherman.net
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Re: French C Tuba

Postby binlove » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:20 am

UncleBeer wrote:Here's a fingering chart for the TC236 with a LONG (whole tone) 5th valve setup: http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=847 ... 7560797191" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

And here's a fingering chart for the same instrument with a SHORT (half step) 5th valve setup: http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=925 ... 8589571742" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Hope this helps!


Is this link still working? I'm getting an error, and I'd really like to get these charts.
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Re: French C Tuba

Postby bort » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:27 am

Works for me... PM me your email address and I'll send them to you.
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Re: French C Tuba

Postby binlove » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:46 pm

bort wrote:Works for me... PM me your email address and I'll send them to you.



Thanks bort. Just sent it over.
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Re: French C Tuba

Postby bort » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:57 pm

Ditto! :tuba:
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Re: French C Tuba

Postby UncleBeer » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:48 pm

binlove wrote:Is this link still working? I'm getting an error, and I'd really like to get these charts.


Links still works for me. Read the page though, as it produces a download link for the charts.
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Re: French C Tuba

Postby olaness1 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:49 am

Have anyone found decent mutes for these ones?

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Re: French C Tuba

Postby Bob Kolada » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:38 pm

I'd be interested in a comparison video between one of these and a euph with the same size mp, if anyone's up for it...
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Re: French C Tuba

Postby Snake Charmer » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:38 am

Having a french tuba I sold my euph long ago, so no chance!
#J.c.S: The idea of the "transpositeur" is: just press number five an play a half step lower in strange keys without awkward fingerings. Unfortunately the most original music for this horn has a lot of sharps written, so you have to think. For me it is easier to finger the right key and have the lowered half-step on five for in-tune combinations with 4 and 6, in quick combinations sometimes with 3 or 12. Yes, and I pulled out my third slide so that I have no difference between my old and new horn.
Brand new on air:
https://youtu.be/sljgjXNUo9Y" target="_blank" target="_blank
The proper fingering chart for tradional layout, just forget all combinations with more than 3 valves over CC (as shown in every chart...)
For my little tuba I have a nice mute from Schlipf (http://www.tuba-mute.com" target="_blank" target="_blank), it was a prototype he had made for some saxhorn. He was glad to get some money for it and it works great on my Courtois and on my Wessex. It is the Mnozil model, which can be adjusted for playing or as a practice mute and can be transported in the bell. When asked he may produce some more of it.
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Re: French C Tuba

Postby joshealejo » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:46 am

Snake Charmer wrote:Having a french tuba I sold my euph long ago, so no chance!
#J.c.S: The idea of the "transpositeur" is: just press number five an play a half step lower in strange keys without awkward fingerings. Unfortunately the most original music for this horn has a lot of sharps written, so you have to think. For me it is easier to finger the right key and have the lowered half-step on five for in-tune combinations with 4 and 6, in quick combinations sometimes with 3 or 12. Yes, and I pulled out my third slide so that I have no difference between my old and new horn.
Brand new on air:
https://youtu.be/sljgjXNUo9Y" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank
The proper fingering chart for tradional layout, just forget all combinations with more than 3 valves over CC (as shown in every chart...)
For my little tuba I have a nice mute from Schlipf (http://www.tuba-mute.com" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank), it was a prototype he had made for some saxhorn. He was glad to get some money for it and it works great on my Courtois and on my Wessex. It is the Mnozil model, which can be adjusted for playing or as a practice mute and can be transported in the bell. When asked he may produce some more of it.


Greetings Mr. Helmut,

Thang you for the Fingering chart! Is almost the same what I use with my Courtois. But I wanted to ask you about your Courtois, as yours looks to bee older and the tubing seems to be a little bit fatter than mine one. Have you ever tryed the newer (yet old) model? Do you still have your Courtois?

Here is mine one!

Image

Thank you so much, Sir!
Jose
C Courtois 168 "D'Orchestre" French Tuba
Bb Courtois 267 "Challenger" Euphonium
F B&S 56AFT "Alessandro Fossi" Bass Tuba
CC B&S 4098 "Mel Culbertson - Neptune" Contrabass Tuba
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Re: French C Tuba

Postby Snake Charmer » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:31 pm

Ola Jose,
unfortunately I never had a chance to try a newer Courtois (or any other brand). I was on the hunt for two years to get mine (#650) and as I found out it is a real one-off. It was made in 1940 under the german occupation for the front theater in Lille (northern France), for being played by french musicians for the german troops. Maybe the body of the instrument is older than 1940, at least it looks similar to #553 of the Utah Orchestra (1923) and the picture in the Watelle Method (1913), but the extraordinaire thing is the left hand valve cluster, which is identical to the right hand. I think there were no proper parts available in the nearly-closed factory back then... It has also the short mouthpipe with the main tuning slide after the valves. And yes. I still have it, you get a glimpse of it over my right shoulder in the video (when you know it!). I was looking for a 168, but when Wessex offered the new one I couldn't resist!
Cheers, Helmut
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Re: French C Tuba

Postby joshealejo » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:06 pm

Yes It seems to be completly horizontal, same as the 1-2-3 valve cluster. Very simillar to the one that Mr. Ofenloch have, yet different as you stated. I like much more "tuba-euphonium" shape It does have! May I ask what mouthpiece you use with It? I use a Loud LM27 and planning to get a Roger Bobo Tenor tuba and cut the shank, same as Mr. Kleinsteuber does. I have tryed to contact Wessex to see if they can sell the mouthpiece that comes with their french tuba with a shank turned down but with no succes, sadly.

Here are a couple of french tubas for sale in France for interested people.

Courtois 168
https://www.leboncoin.fr/instruments_de ... 16261.htm/" target="_blank

Couesnon
https://www.leboncoin.fr/instruments_de ... 40298.htm/" target="_blank

Note that the Couesnon seems to have a little more wide bottom bow too.

Jose
C Courtois 168 "D'Orchestre" French Tuba
Bb Courtois 267 "Challenger" Euphonium
F B&S 56AFT "Alessandro Fossi" Bass Tuba
CC B&S 4098 "Mel Culbertson - Neptune" Contrabass Tuba
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