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Re: A mouthpiece angular sweet spot... really?

Postby happyroman » Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:26 pm

Rex Martin told me about this years ago. The throat will be bored out at a very slight angle in each mouthpiece. There will very rarely (if ever) be perfectly straight through the shank. The idea is to make sure that slight imperfection is aligned a certain way (I don't remember how) and there will be a noticeable difference in how the mouthpiece plays and sounds.
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Re: A mouthpiece angular sweet spot... really?

Postby dgpretzel » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:08 pm

This whole genre of tweaks that must be bazillionth order effects is interesting to me. I just need more popcorn . :)

Sort of vaguely similar to all sorts of audiophile "golden ear" discussions that run rampant in those circles.

That reminds me, I am planning on listening to an old CD this evening... Better go get it out of the freezer now.

I know, I know... I'll get back the "catastrophe theory" argument about the butterfly flapping its wings in China causing a hurricane in the U.S., etc.

Need even more popcorn, please.

Regards,

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Re: A mouthpiece angular sweet spot... really?

Postby Three Valves » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:00 pm

I knew those Chinese were controlling the weather/climate!!
Who needs four valves??

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Re: A mouthpiece angular sweet spot... really?

Postby bloke » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:11 pm

Three Valves wrote:I knew those Chinese were controlling the weather/climate!!


nope. That's the president's job. Remember? He didn't go to Paris to give away more of our stuff to others, so... :roll:
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Re: A mouthpiece angular sweet spot... really?

Postby Art Hovey » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:29 pm

Anybody remember the video of Vizzuti playing Carnival of Venice while "clocking" his trumpet 360 degrees?
He must have passed through his "sweet spot" in the process. Shall we listen closely to see which note it was on?
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Re: A mouthpiece angular sweet spot... really?

Postby Drbuzzz » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 am

I wouldn't have believed it until I experienced it. I wouldn't call it a sweet spot as much as a timbre change and back pressure change. Therefore, certain pieces I like it in one spot, but for others, I need it spun elsewhere. For instance, in one position, the sound is brighter and the back pressure is low. Works great for very articulate pieces. Spun around (i.e. about 180 degrees), the sound is darker and the back pressure is more intense. Works great for very soft tonguing and soft slurs. I've noticed this phenomenon on every mouthpiece, on every horn. And the positions that work for one horn aren't the same positions for another horn. I don't know the science behind what's happening...don't care. As long as there's a change in sound (and feel), that's all that matters to me.

This was introduced to me at the Denver ITEC while I was watching Mickey Moore play the Yamayork. Wayne Tannabe was having him clock the mouthpiece. At first I called BS, but after I heard the difference (and it wasn't a "sweet spot", rather a difference), I couldn't wait to try it. So when I got to try the Yamayork, I did a little mouthpiece spin and was totally amazed. I was equally impressed with mouthpiece clocking as I was the Yamayork.
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Re: A mouthpiece angular sweet spot... really?

Postby windshieldbug » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:39 pm

Just matters which angle the backbore was dropped on last... :shock: :D
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Re: A mouthpiece angular sweet spot... really?

Postby Snake Charmer » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:03 pm

Seems to make sense:
DSCI sweet spot.jpg
DSCI sweet spot.jpg (96.02 KiB) Viewed 158 times


But how about THIS? :shock:
Comfo-Rim-Trombone-mpc.jpg
Comfo-Rim-Trombone-mpc.jpg (26.82 KiB) Viewed 158 times
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Re: A mouthpiece angular sweet spot... really?

Postby bloke » Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:10 pm

I could absolutely believe that it could make a difference, if the same side of the backbore were to point to the ground every time, and the way the airstream danced across the sludge that collects along the (OK) "bottom" side of the backbore became something to which a player became accustomed.
Further, it supplies the tuba player - normally with relatively little to do - with yet one more thing about which they can be neurotic.
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Re: A mouthpiece angular sweet spot... really?

Postby Three Valves » Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:53 pm

Obviously, anyone who poo-poos this clocking theory, just isn’t sophisticated/high strung/neurotic enough to appreciate the difference!!

This is especially evident when graphic music notation is being performed...

:tuba:
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Re: A mouthpiece angular sweet spot... really?

Postby Doc » Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:21 am

Drbuzzz wrote:I wouldn't have believed it until I experienced it. I wouldn't call it a sweet spot as much as a timbre change and back pressure change. Therefore, certain pieces I like it in one spot, but for others, I need it spun elsewhere. For instance, in one position, the sound is brighter and the back pressure is low. Works great for very articulate pieces. Spun around (i.e. about 180 degrees), the sound is darker and the back pressure is more intense. Works great for very soft tonguing and soft slurs. I've noticed this phenomenon on every mouthpiece, on every horn. And the positions that work for one horn aren't the same positions for another horn. I don't know the science behind what's happening...don't care. As long as there's a change in sound (and feel), that's all that matters to me.

This was introduced to me at the Denver ITEC while I was watching Mickey Moore play the Yamayork. Wayne Tannabe was having him clock the mouthpiece. At first I called BS, but after I heard the difference (and it wasn't a "sweet spot", rather a difference), I couldn't wait to try it. So when I got to try the Yamayork, I did a little mouthpiece spin and was totally amazed. I was equally impressed with mouthpiece clocking as I was the Yamayork.


For Drbuzzz and any other proponents of this practice...

My initial reaction plus sincere questions:

1. It seems to me that, with the precise machining mouthpieces and receivers go through (discounting damaged mp's and receivers), the manufacturing differences would be incredibly small, yielding results so small as to be indiscernible. How do they account for that? (BTW, Joe, I clean all the beer, sauerkraut, and bratwurst residue in my mouthpiece after every Oktoberfest season. Or every other season... :mrgreen: )

2. Just how many degrees are they turning each time as they clock it around? How are they measuring it each time? Any precision to this method or simply luck/trial/error?

3. I generally try to keep an open mind and never say, "Never," but I'm pretty skeptical as a rule. I may try it simply to see if the theory has merit or it is easily-debunked, but I'm not yet convinced it's even worth trying. With modern machining being what it is, what significant evidence is there that is purely scientific and not subjective that should convince a player to explore this "phenomenon" in a serious way?

Thanks,

Bill
All that, plus $8.00, will get you a venti at Starbucks.
Or in my case, a large can of Folgers.
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Re: A mouthpiece angular sweet spot... really?

Postby bloke » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:16 am

For any of my customers, you should know that the beer mug is intended to be pointed DOWNWARD. The orientation refers to 6:00 on the clock face, and is the same as in the rest of your life:
A litre of beer for breakfast and a litre of beer on the way home from work keep a tuba player healthy, wealthy, and wise...
... and, if you are one who works the graveyard shift, just have both litres after work at 6 AM, one right after the other, to cover both after work and breakfast. Once both litres have been consumed very quickly, please call me about purchasing additional mouthpieces right at that time.
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Re: A mouthpiece angular sweet spot... really?

Postby Doc » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:25 am

bloke wrote:For any of my customers, you should know that the beer mug is intended to be pointed DOWNWARD. The orientation refers to 6:00 on the clock face, and is the same as in the rest of your life:
A litre of beer for breakfast and a litre of beer on the way home from work keep a tuba player healthy, wealthy, and wise...
... and, if you are one who works the graveyard shift, just have both litres after work at 6 AM, one right after the other, to cover both after work and breakfast. Once both litres have been consumed very quickly, please call me about purchasing additional mouthpieces right at that time.


Indeed, sir.

BTW, beer is health food. It contains pure water (impurities have been boiled out), grain, vegetables (hops is a green leafy plant), and trace minerals. You only need a bratwurst, cheese, and a kolac or strudel to round out meat, dairy, and fruit.
There's never a bad time to call Joe about mouthpieces, but after 2l might be optimal.
All that, plus $8.00, will get you a venti at Starbucks.
Or in my case, a large can of Folgers.
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Re: A mouthpiece angular sweet spot... really?

Postby Donn » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:32 am

Here I thought you weren't much of a beer drinker, and now you're consuming by the "litre".

Anyway, I believe that was the origin of the engraving on mouthpieces. It has come to be used for labelling purposes, but as anyone with old mouthpieces will have noticed, there used to be a lot of mouthpieces with no labels or anything. Players must have complained that they didn't know how to orient the mouthpiece, and the engraved spot to address that was quickly adapted to serve its current secondary labelling purpose.
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Re: A mouthpiece angular sweet spot... really?

Postby bloke » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:55 am

I drank one beer at my brother's house (again: near Lee Highway) about four days ago…for the first time in several years, and that served as enough of a reminder to me why I do not drink it.

Did you just scan my post, or did you read it?
Where in my post did I discuss any consumption by ~me~ of litres of beer?
As a typical "elitist progressive" American, I consistently advocate that others engage in behavior in which I would never personally engage, but whereby the advocated behavior by others benefits me greatly.

To address your second topic, perhaps it would be a good idea to market some of my models as "incognito" models. It could be yet another way (beyond the titanium bling, etc.) to add on a $10-$15 extra charge... :idea:
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