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0.660 or 0.710 Bore Rotary Valve

Postby Tubajug » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:24 pm

I'm looking for a rotary valve to use on my Eb tuba project as a 5th valve. The small side of the main tuning slide is 0.660 bore and the large side is about 0.710. If you have a rotor with either of these bore sizes, please let me know. If you have the smaller size, I should have tubing for it, if you have the larger size, I will need tubing as well if you have any, but I'd be happy just to start with a valve.

I have the old, top action, three valve section I removed from the Eb tuba I'm refurbishing if that interests you as a trade option. Thanks!
Jordan
King 2341 with a Holton "Monster" Eb bell
Eb Frankentuba in progress

Used to own, but still a fun thread: Lyon & Healy Eb

If at first you don't succeed, skydiving's probably not for you.
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Re: 0.660 or 0.710 Bore Rotary Valve

Postby YORK-aholic » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:35 pm

A rotor from an Olds Ultratone contra bugle (old drum corps 1 piston, 1 rotor horn) might be just right for your small side.
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Re: 0.660 or 0.710 Bore Rotary Valve

Postby Tubajug » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:30 pm

I've seen the elephant's posts about those and thought the same thing. The ports are slanted on those if I remember right, but if anyone had one I'd take it!
Jordan
King 2341 with a Holton "Monster" Eb bell
Eb Frankentuba in progress

Used to own, but still a fun thread: Lyon & Healy Eb

If at first you don't succeed, skydiving's probably not for you.
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Re: 0.660 or 0.710 Bore Rotary Valve

Postby the elephant » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:57 pm

These are @ .656” so one could probably be made to fit very nicely as the knuckles are thick. Give me the ID of the ferrule you would use to mate it to your horn and I will give you the OD of the Olds knuckles. I have one that is torn up and is missing the rear bearing plate and cap. They are very hard to find, however, so it might never be usable.
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Re: 0.660 or 0.710 Bore Rotary Valve

Postby Tubajug » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:23 pm

My calipers are reading 0.695 ID on the ferrule I could use and 0.685 ID on the MTS now... I don't know where I got 0.660 from, unless I was measuring the inner slide for that. Either way, there you go. Thanks!
Jordan
King 2341 with a Holton "Monster" Eb bell
Eb Frankentuba in progress

Used to own, but still a fun thread: Lyon & Healy Eb

If at first you don't succeed, skydiving's probably not for you.
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Re: 0.660 or 0.710 Bore Rotary Valve

Postby the elephant » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:23 am

Tubajug wrote:My calipers are reading 0.695 ID on the ferrule I could use and 0.685 ID on the MTS now... I don't know where I got 0.660 from, unless I was measuring the inner slide for that. Either way, there you go. Thanks!



.660" needs to be the inside of the valve and the inner slide leg. It has a discrete thickness, and then you need a certain amount of clearance for the ferrule or outer MTS leg to fit over the valve knuckle. I am looking for the inside size of the outer tube, whether that is the ferrule that will connect the valve to 4th or the slide leg on the MTS that will connect to the valve. There are two parts that will be soldered directly to the valve and both must fit. Your giving me the inside sizes of your two outer parts will allow me to see whether this can be made to fit. :mrgreen:
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Re: 0.660 or 0.710 Bore Rotary Valve

Postby Tubajug » Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:45 am

Ok, then the measurements I gave you are correct. The small side of the main tuning slide was 0.685.
Jordan
King 2341 with a Holton "Monster" Eb bell
Eb Frankentuba in progress

Used to own, but still a fun thread: Lyon & Healy Eb

If at first you don't succeed, skydiving's probably not for you.
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Re: 0.660 or 0.710 Bore Rotary Valve

Postby YORK-aholic » Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:32 pm

Now I'm getting confused :lol:

Maybe we need a picture and/or diagram. Haha

Then again, if Tubajug and Elephant get it, that's all that matters.
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Re: 0.660 or 0.710 Bore Rotary Valve

Postby the elephant » Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:52 pm

YORK-aholic wrote:Now I'm getting confused :lol:

Maybe we need a picture and/or diagram. Haha

Then again, if Tubajug and Elephant get it, that's all that matters.


When trying to match up parts, a few thousandths of an inch could mean it won't fit without some alterations, and sometimes the alterations can ruin the tube. THICKNESS counts just as much as "bore size" and in some cases is more important when splicing in a part. In the case of the Olds rotors, he would be stepping down .004" in bore, but since the bore of a rotor is already pinched (and much more than by four mil) this is not really such a problem, and one needs to look at how well the part will mate up with existing tubing just as much. If it fits well in one dimension you can probably make a go of it. If it fits well in the other, also probably okay. If neither fit it is not worth the effort to try and alter the spliced-in part to make it fit. If the bore is really close and the OD fits the tube it has to live in (the ferrule or the outside slide leg) that would be fine; the two parts fit together and an internal bevel can be put in to help with any interference. If the bores match but the tube or ferrule cannot fit over the knuckle you have work to do that could crack or split the tube, or you will have to sand or file the snot out of the valve knuckle.

Both numbers need to be very close.
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Re: 0.660 or 0.710 Bore Rotary Valve

Postby the elephant » Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:02 pm

Example:

Miraphone 186 tubing and Conn 2XJ tubing - both are .770" bore, but the Conn stuff is more than twice the thickness, so these tubes cannot be made to work together without a lot of work. In fact, I can put together some Miraphone inner/outer slide tubing and put that inside the Conn outer tubes. The Miraphone stuff is super thin. The Conn stuff is very thick. But they are the same "size" because we usually deal with inner tube ID when we talk about "size" at all. The bore size of a donor rotary valve casing knuckle may match, but may not be a usable part for a given horn. Since the valve is so pinched in the middle I tend to match up the casing knuckle's OD with the ID of the parts that will be soldered to it, which are usually a MTS outer leg and a connecting ferrule to the 4th piston or to the dogleg into the bugle (depending on which side you put the rotor on).
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Re: 0.660 or 0.710 Bore Rotary Valve

Postby YORK-aholic » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:52 am

Sorry Elephant (and Tubajug for steering things a bit off course). I 'mostly' understood what you were talking about originally, though I enjoyed (and benefited from) your in depth explanation. I meant that I was getting confused by who was referring to which diameter (ID or OD) of which part. I apologize for causing you extra work to explain it all in such depth.

And to Tubajug, I really hope we get you a proper rotor for your horn. If the one I mentioned might be in the ballpark, I can remeasure and send ID and OD of both the ferrule and the knuckle.
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Re: 0.660 or 0.710 Bore Rotary Valve

Postby Tubajug » Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:10 pm

No worries.

I've posted some pictures for clarity below. If you have a rotary valve whose ports will fit *inside* either of these tubes, please let me know. Thanks!

The small side of the main tuning slide:

Image

The large side of the main tuning slide:

Image

Thanks folks!
Jordan
King 2341 with a Holton "Monster" Eb bell
Eb Frankentuba in progress

Used to own, but still a fun thread: Lyon & Healy Eb

If at first you don't succeed, skydiving's probably not for you.
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Re: 0.660 or 0.710 Bore Rotary Valve

Postby PRO » Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:45 pm

Hi Jordan, Please contact me by email at proscientific AT verizon DOT net. No PM please. Paul.
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Re: 0.660 or 0.710 Bore Rotary Valve

Postby Tubajug » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:34 pm

I was able to find one that will work on the large side of the tuning slide. Thanks folks!
Jordan
King 2341 with a Holton "Monster" Eb bell
Eb Frankentuba in progress

Used to own, but still a fun thread: Lyon & Healy Eb

If at first you don't succeed, skydiving's probably not for you.
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