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new model Sellmansberger $150 / $200 mouthpieces

Postby bloke » Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:21 pm

again, the $150 version is a no-choices (largest-selling rim/cup/back-bore/between-euro-and-standard shank) FIXED mouthpiece YET with a stainless steel rim bonded to a silver plated brass cup/shank underpart.

The $200 version is the SAME underpart - except THREADED, and with the stainless steel rim of your choice.

We're releasing the last of the PROTOTYPES, so a very short list of folks may purchase these (now: no wait, and no "jacked-up/Hey...These are the prototypes!" pricing) PRIOR TO the first large batch being "manufactured".

I'm only mentioning them on TubeNet, being that there are so very few of them (for now) - I don't want to create a larger demand that (current) supply.

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Re: new model Sellmansberger $150 / $200 mouthpieces

Postby Tubaing » Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:09 pm

Why not have a cheaper-yet version by not silver plating the brass part :shock:
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Re: new model Sellmansberger $150 / $200 mouthpieces

Postby bloke » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:23 am

Tubaing wrote:Why not have a cheaper-yet version by not silver plating the brass part :shock:


I'd like to explore making the under-assembly of Lexan.
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Re: new model Sellmansberger $150 / $200 mouthpieces

Postby Tubaing » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:26 am

bloke wrote:
Tubaing wrote:Why not have a cheaper-yet version by not silver plating the brass part :shock:


I'd like to explore making the under-assembly of Lexan.


That sounds awesome!
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Re: new model Sellmansberger $150 / $200 mouthpieces

Postby bloke » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:41 pm

To me the only thing - material-wise - that makes stainless steel superior is wear-and-tear of the RIM:

Stainless steel's density is about the same as brass, it requires no coating to prevent tarnish, most users are not allergic to stainless steel (though someone can be found who is allergic to just about any given substance), and (regardless of what some choose to believe) the material and wall thickness of a mouthpiece has nothing whatsoever to do with the sound produced. The only things that matter are the various inner dimensions (which certainly include the rim surface contour), and (if some player plays better - in their own view - with a more-scratched or more-smooth rim surface), the amount of "grabbiness" of a rim surface. Basically, stainless steel rims remain (defacto: forever) as smooth an as shiny as brand-new plated-brass mouthpiece rims...but certainly COULD be scuffed slightly to imitate the lack of smoothness of an old worn plated brass rim.
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Re: new model Sellmansberger $150 / $200 mouthpieces

Postby Big Toot » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:44 pm

bloke wrote:To me the only thing - material-wise - that makes stainless steel superior is wear-and-tear of the RIM:

Stainless steel's density is about the same as brass, it requires no coating to prevent tarnish, most users are not allergic to stainless steel (though someone can be found who is allergic to just about any given substance), and (regardless of what some choose to believe) the material and wall thickness of a mouthpiece has nothing whatsoever to do with the sound produced. The only things that matter are the various inner dimensions (which certainly include the rim surface contour), and (if some player plays better - in their own view - with a more-scratched or more-smooth rim surface), the amount of "grabbiness" of a rim surface. Basically, stainless steel rims remain (defacto: forever) as smooth an as shiny as brand-new plated-brass mouthpiece rims.


I've often wondered about that very thing. Why aren't SS mouthpieces more common? They would be cheaper than silver-plated ones, I would think. Is it just tradition? Or the idea that silver over brass sounds better?
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Re: new model Sellmansberger $150 / $200 mouthpieces

Postby bloke » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:50 pm

Big Toot wrote:
bloke wrote:To me the only thing - material-wise - that makes stainless steel superior is wear-and-tear of the RIM:

Stainless steel's density is about the same as brass, it requires no coating to prevent tarnish, most users are not allergic to stainless steel (though someone can be found who is allergic to just about any given substance), and (regardless of what some choose to believe) the material and wall thickness of a mouthpiece has nothing whatsoever to do with the sound produced. The only things that matter are the various inner dimensions (which certainly include the rim surface contour), and (if some player plays better - in their own view - with a more-scratched or more-smooth rim surface), the amount of "grabbiness" of a rim surface. Basically, stainless steel rims remain (defacto: forever) as smooth an as shiny as brand-new plated-brass mouthpiece rims.


I've often wondered about that very thing. Why aren't SS mouthpieces more common? They would be cheaper than silver-plated ones, I would think. Is it just tradition? Or the idea that silver over brass sounds better?


- tradition...much like Vincent Bach continuing to use nitrocellulose lacquer (rather than durable epoxy lacquer) on their "Stradivarius" line instruments (even though OTHER changes to those instruments - over the years - have been epic and legion) - as some believe voodoo about those two types of lacquers actually making an audible difference (when someone is vibrating the column of air INSIDE one of their trumpets or trombones).

- It requires special tooling and additional machining knowledge/experience to machine harder metals to precision dimensions. As an example of something that I do NOT offer, solid titanium is yet another very hard metal which offers even more challenges related to precision machining, because titanium is not only very hard, but it is also considerably more flexible than stainless steel. Another consideration (with our modular mouthpieces) is THREADING. With brass (a considerably softer and more malleable metal) threading that is very close to perfect will subtly conform to other threading (male-to-female) and work "great". With stainless steel being much harder, there is no conforming, so tolerances come into play even more than with brass...i.e. "Just HOW Much space can we place between the teeth of male and female threads in order for them to be easily screwed together, YET not offer a perceivable air leak and still offer a several-seconds vacuum?" (Our threading tolerances are very close...closer than top-quality valve tolerances, and extraordinary machines - with center-wobble down to several decimal points - are required in order to achieve this.)
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Re: new model Sellmansberger $150 / $200 mouthpieces

Postby Dan Tuba » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:08 pm

I would definitely be interested in a solid Lexan version. Lexan mouthpieces offer the least amount of irritation to my face. It would be really interesting to experiment with making the all Lexan version with a little more mass. I love my Kelly Mouthpieces, in particular the 24AW and KT50, however I have often wondered what they would sound like if they were a little "heavier."
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Re: new model Sellmansberger $150 / $200 mouthpieces

Postby bloke » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:49 pm

Dan Tuba wrote:I have often wondered what they would sound like if they were a little "heavier."


Well...I've already "weighed" in on my prediction of your findings: nix

Part of wall thickness dimension of my Symphony" cup component is little more than the thickness of the sheet brass of which instruments are fabricated. :|

advantage...??
disadvantage...??
none...other than "cheaper to mail" and "easier on the thigh muscles" :arrow: :idea:

Again, bulk, weight, and material choices (other than how they can affect the finish on the rim surface...and sure: surface finish durability) are humbug.
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Re: new model Sellmansberger $150 / $200 mouthpieces

Postby Dan Tuba » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:21 pm

bloke wrote:
Dan Tuba wrote:I have often wondered what they would sound like if they were a little "heavier."


Well...I've already "weighed" in on my prediction of your findings: nix

Part of wall thickness dimension of my Symphony" cup component is little more than the thickness of the sheet brass of which instruments are fabricated. :|

advantage...??
disadvantage...??
none...other than "cheaper to mail" and "easier on the thigh muscles" :arrow: :idea:

Again, bulk, weight, and material choices (other than how they can affect the finish on the rim surface...and sure: surface finish durability) are humbug.


I recently experimented with the Stainless steel KT50 and the Lexan KT50. Although far from "scientific," the recordings I made both individually and with a group yielded roughly the same result/product. So...you are probably right :tuba:
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Re: new model Sellmansberger $150 / $200 mouthpieces

Postby peterbas » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:33 pm

Big Toot wrote:Just HOW Much space can we place between the teeth of male and female threads in order for them to be easily screwed together, YET not offer a perceivable air leak and still offer a several-seconds vacuum?"


Yes, I've wondered about that, why is the thread so fine and about 7 turns for the rim.
This is much better thread than your shower hose or gaspipe and they don't leak.
Did you try a courser thread?
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Re: new model Sellmansberger $150 / $200 mouthpieces

Postby bloke » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:01 pm

peterbas wrote:Did you try a courser thread?


No, but the tolerances of this thread were made as close as possible while still being reliable.
They need to be able to work in a real-world (and not surgical/dust-free) environment.
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Re: new model Sellmansberger $150 / $200 mouthpieces

Postby djwpe » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:41 am

peterbas wrote:
Big Toot wrote:Just HOW Much space can we place between the teeth of male and female threads in order for them to be easily screwed together, YET not offer a perceivable air leak and still offer a several-seconds vacuum?"


Yes, I've wondered about that, why is the thread so fine and about 7 turns for the rim.
This is much better thread than your shower hose or gaspipe and they don't leak.
Did you try a courser thread?


Pipe threads are tapered, and are meant to be made up ONCE. The deformation due to the taper results in the seal (if done properly). Joint compound (Teflon tape or paste) is there as lubricant to ensure you get it tight enough to deform. Pipe threads are not reusable.

This application needs what Joe has given it. Fine threads that can be used multiple times.
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Re: new model Sellmansberger $150 / $200 mouthpieces

Postby Casca Grossa » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:18 am

Serious question from me for once...Why not a plastic version for marching use or strolling gigs? I would definitely buy one. Still considering one of these for my sousaphone gigs but plastic would be great for the occassional drop on cement. I play on a Kellyburg with the sousaphone but I would love that #2 rim.
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Re: new model Sellmansberger $150 / $200 mouthpieces

Postby bloke » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:53 pm

Casca Grossa wrote:Serious question from me for once...Why not a plastic version for marching use or strolling gigs? I would definitely buy one. Still considering one of these for my sousaphone gigs but plastic would be great for the occassional drop on cement. I play on a Kellyburg with the sousaphone but I would love that #2 rim.


You can order a Lexan rim in every single rim size.
Lexan production isn't underway right now, but will be again.

Injected molded Lexan is one thing, but machined is quite another (and very messy - to the point of being quite annoying).
Machine settings must also be adjusted, due to the huge differences in the hardnesses of Lexan and stainless steel.
Runs of Lexan are put off until there is a lot of it to do at once.
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