Bathtime with TSP?

[Worth]

I've searched the archives and most information centers around acidic chem cleaning solutions. Would there be any harm to either silver plate or lacquer of using TSP at the recommended concentration? I know that TSP works well in many industrial applications as I use it in brewing. It seems that this alkaline cleaner would be as effective as an acid based one, but I'm specifically looking to make sure that it doesn't have some crazy effect on the finish or solder joints, etc. After thorough rinsing I could neutralize with something acid based if that would be helpful for any reason. Thanks!

[Worth]

As a side note, this is for my 1974 B&H Imperial which I have played the heck out of, but (looks down) have not cleaned since acquiring and is not smelling too great even to me

[Worth]

That's why I'm asking, I figured it would yield a death blow to the smelly greasy oily stuff before addressing any lime.

[Worth]

I got a whiff of it at brass band last night and it came to mind that people might think it's me and not the horn.


I went for it and am going for the long soak. Man, I've got a slick in the tub that reminds me of the Exxon Valdez. Your point is well taken re: the lime, that didn't cross my mind as I was looking to eradicate the stink by any means necessary. Thanks Bloke

[Donn]

Interesting - you don't mention the finish, but I suppose that it could hardly be anything but silver plate, so I looked around for any discussion of effects of TSP and other caustic salts, and didn't see much. The classic cyanide bath is apparently pretty caustic, so in general it seems like it could hardly be a bad thing. What I would worry about is that there may be some old type of lacquer that's attacked by TSP, something that's chemically similar to the partially polymerized oils that TSP is so good at loosening up. Or if there's any aluminum in there, but that's one metal that seems to be religiously excluded from musical instrument manufacture.

[tbonesullivan]

Most of the time, I would think the smell stuff is going to be in the leadpipe valve tubes, and areas up until the main tuning slide. I don't really see much in terms of organic matter, which is usually what stinks, happening further down in the horn. Some dish detergent, warm water, and a nice stiff brush/snake almost always has been able to cure stinky problems I have with brass instruments, even back in high school.

Finding a nice stiff brush on a snake for valve tubing can be a bit hard at times. Most of the ones out there are really soft, and don't really SCRUB enough.

[Worth]

Lots of good info from all which hopefully helps others down the line also. No bad effect from the TSP whatsoever on silver plate, but I'm not quite ready to bathe my lacquer W900 in it. Organic matter, um, yeah. LOTS of it which I also attacked with a snake (a somewhat pitiful one thinking of tbone's post) and rinsing afterwards, etc. A biofilm from hell, slimy and coming off in layers. Put the naked valves in TSP as well and just as Bloke said, great for organic, not much on lime. I was out of vinegar so I used an acidic sanitizer called Star San for the valves figuring it may help passivate the SS after the TSP (and get the limey ports) and valves now clean as a whistle. Maybe next time the main bath will be CLR based, but thank God the stink is gone. The TSP cleared out organic like a champ for sure. Funny I have a QHR that I got years ago and never used. Bloke's version is the same thing, minus the marked up price!

[tbonesullivan]

The only think I worry about with hot hot water is the effects on old school Nitrocellulose lacquer. I know that Bach stopped using recently, but back in the 50s and 60s it was still the finish of choice. Also places like Oberloh still use Nikolas Air Dry Lacquer, which is nitrocellulose based. It is really an easy to work with finish, aside from the solvents involved. However it does not like hot water.

The recipe for a Raw brass Bach Stradivarius Trombone or Trumpet is to buy a lacquer one, and give it a hot bath. The lacquer pretty much falls off in sheets. So, I would make sure the instrument has an acrylic or epoxy lacquer before heating it up too much.

[hubert]

And after such an operation........perhaps use this for regular maintenance??

https://www.hornguys.com/products/meinl ... ing-system

Hubert

[hup_d_dup]

And after such an operation........perhaps use this for regular maintenance??

https://www.hornguys.com/products/meinl ... ing-system

Hubert

This is a good product (I use it) but it can't turn through sharp bends.

> With the nozzle twisted to "off", turn on the faucet. When set up with the tuba (towels or foam rubber for padding, main tuning slide removed), open up the brass hose nozzle to "full blast", jet the water through the mouthpipe (which will EXIT the instrument through the SMALL SIDE of the main slide - which you have ALREADY REMOVED), and wiggle all the valves VIGOROUSLY. The heat, velocity, and valve-wiggling disruptions will release a considerable percentage (no...not 100%) of the filth in the mouthpipe and valveset of your instrument.

Be careful you don't blow off the valve slides. The velocity that a slide can shoot off a horn might surprise you (at least it surprised me).

Hup