Euph. Shanks - The Frustrations of One Size Doesn't Fit All

[Randy Beschorner]

Memories of my college days caused me to seek out the euphonium mouthpiece of my youth, a Kosi-Kup (pre-Denis Wick Besson mouthpiece). I finally located one via that auction site and had the winning bid. It arrived and with eager anticipation, I plugged it into my large receiver Miraphone 1258 only to be brought back to reality that the Besson of my youth had a European shank receiver. Even with the mouthpiece swimming around in the Miraphone's MP receiver, I would not be deterred; I wanted to hear that old magic sound again. In desparation I grabbed duct tape to bulk up the shaft on a temporary basis and tried it out and comared it to my normal mouthpiece. It was the magic sound I remembered. Articulation was cleaner. Tone was clearer. My high range sang beautifully.

My wife, who is normally non-commital about these sorts of things, came into my practice room and said, "I don't know what you did, but you suddenly had a better sound." This was a happy moment.

I removed the duct tape off the mouthpiece and cleaned up the shank from any left-over adhesive, then began my search for the right adapter in my musical odds and ends drawer. Found the one that goes from tenor bone shank to European receiver. Found the one that goes from tenor bone shank to bass bone receiver. Found one that was supposed to go from European shank to bass bone (large) receiver.

Alas, it was not so. The best I could get was the tip of the mp in the one adapter. My happiness was a little further out of reach.

So I called my usual reputable brass orientated shops for the adapter that would make it so. The best I got was "I know that somebody should be making those, but I don't know where to find them. We get these requests from time to time, but we don't have any in stock."

So my question is a three-parter. Does such an adapter (European shank to bass bone/large receiver) actually exist? If it does, who would have it in stock? If not, is there a better, more permanent solution to the problem than duct tape?

Thank you for listening to the rant and for any help you can give.

Randy Beschorner

[Dan Schultz]

Randy... If I'm translating your information correctly, the difference between what you have and what you want would result in an adapter with a wall section so thin that it wouldn't hold up to the rigors of constant use. Also, along with mouthpiece dynamics you also need to consider how the mouthpiece fits the receiver and leadpipe. I DO hope someday that all the manufacturers standard their receivers and mouthpieces. The only workaround I can see is to perhaps turn down your new mouthpiece to fit one of you adapters that fits you horn, or change the receiver on your horn.

[pg]

. . . is there a better, more permanent solution to the problem than duct tape?

Is replacing the receiver on your horn an option?

--paul;

[cjk]

Is turning down the shank of the Kosicup to fit one the adapters an option??

[Chuck(G)]

I have a mouthpiece (custom made for me by Schilke in 1976) that is fitting too far into the receiver of the tuba for which it was made. Over the years, I've (both) stretched the tuba's receiver and worn down the mouthpiece shank.

My plan is to build a brass or copper sheet metal (completely sealed) soldered "box" around the cup end of the mouthpiece that ends (soldered on circularly) at the large end of the shank exterior. In addition, I will very carefully (with no extra solder "flow" whatsoever mounded up on the edge) solder a flat copper or brass sheet metal "cap" over the small end of the shank.

Joe, have you checked with Anderson to see if there's simply a "resist" that can be applied to the areas that you want to be left alone? That might save you a lot of trouble. Resists are used extensively in the electronics business for just this situation.

If I were the original poster, I'd simply change the receiver on the euphonium to a Euro shank medium. It shouldn't be difficult and may be easier than fooling with the mouthpiece. Heck, there may even be an "official" Miraphone part.

[Lyle]

I solved that problem by using 'shrink sleeving' which is a polymer tubing that will shrink around the shank when heated. Go to an electronics supply shop, or 'Radio Shack'. The size you want will fit on the shank easy before heating. A hair dryer will shrink the tubing to fit the shank. Hope this helps.

[Dan Schultz]

Is turning down the shank of the Kosicup to fit one the adapters an option??

Certainly. I mentioned that earlier in this tread. You are only talking about taking off a few thousanths of an inch.

[dmmorris]

The other choice is to talk to Vladimir at Dillon Music.

Mike Finn gave me this same advice......his standard MF3H doesn't fit my York's 16mm leadpipe. Mike routed it to Dillon's and they did a great job reshanking and then replating. see 'em here....Big Shank on the right....you'd never guess that surgery had been performed.

[Randy Beschorner]

Thank you for the variety of responses. Switching the large shank receiver to the English is something I'd prefer not to do. Converting the horn over to swappable receivers similar to some of the Hirsbrunners is also that would be prohibitively expensive. Thank you, LV for two excellent suggestions; I'll probably take the path of least resistance and talk with Dillon Music come Monday.

Also, thank you TubaTinker for giving me an explanation of why the converter doesn't exist. Bloke, as always, has an interesting, unusual, workable and interesting approach to the problem.

Randy Beschorner

[Randy Beschorner]

Again, I want to thank all who contributed to helping me find a solution to this problem. Today I received two KosiKup mouthpieces that Vladimir Fridman of Dillon's reshanked for me. The craftsmanship is flawless. I look forward to give the 1 1/2 a run its money over the next few months and hopefully a trip to WWBW in the near future to compare it to a BB2 to see how the design has evolved.

Randy Beschorner

[Rick F]

Didn't the great Harold Brasch use the 'Kosikup' mouthpiece on his horn? Reason - because it came with the horn and was designed for that horn.

[MaryAnn]

Well, can anyone tell me what "size" receiver I have on my MW bariton? (Bb, pitched like a euphonium, looks just like a little bitty rotary tuba.)

The only mouthpiece I have found that fits it is the one that came with it, which has no markings on it. Everything else is either too large or too small. Tbone is too small; I can't remember whether Euro is too big or too small, but it's one or the other.

Anybody know?

MA

[Lyle]

Mary Ann; My Mirafone rotary oval euph shank is larger than a tenor tbn (but they will fit), smaller than a Besson European shank. If you can't find an older German euph mouthpiece, Try building up a tenor tbd mpc. That gives you more options IMHO.

[Rick F]

Yes, they do.

Custom Music Co.
http://www.custommusiccorp.com/tubas/euphs.html

Interchangeable Receivers -- for Tenor Trombone, Euphonium, and Bass Trombone size receivers. Crafted for uninterrupted flow of the air stream into the leadpipe thus assuring a free-blowing euphonium of the finest intonation and tone production.

[Donn]

Is large shank euphonium the same as European/British small shank Eb tuba?

Thinking to learn baritone, I recently picked up an oldish Alexander piston euphonium. It's kind of an odd critter, narrowish bell but 4 pistons and a bore around 15.5mm/.610in. I find that a DW5 tuba mouthpiece fits in it about as well as it does in my Orsi Eb.

[Donn]

How 'bout a coupla pix, Donn! Sounds interesting!

Well, since you asked - http://www.drizzle.com/~donn/alex.jpg

I wouldn't mind knowing more about this thing.