What makes a good quintet horn?

[GVSUTuba]

I've been listening to a lot of different quintet music lately and I've been wondering lately; "what makes a good quintet horn?" What specific things do you look for when listening to a quintet tuba or buying one? Do you prefer piston or rotor, lacquer or silver plated, etc. I'm currently in the process of buying an F tuba for use in quintet, but also for playing solos/recitals on and wanted to hear what people had to say.

Thanks in advance,

[fenne1ca]

I've played quintet gigs on a Thor, Gnagey 4/4, Miraphone 186, Yamaha 621 F, Yamaha 621 CC, Fafner, Keefer 3/4 Eb, York Monster Eb, and a Keefer BBb helicon. Every one went fine, because I paid attention to playing with good time, good tone, and good listening. It's about a good sound and playing *with* your ensemble, and no horn will do that for you.

[windshieldbug]

It's about a good sound and playing *with* your ensemble, and no horn will do that for you.

[toobagrowl]

In addition to what is already posted here, the makeup of the quintet itself and what music you generally play also matters. So, the overall quality of the group, and their sound/equipment.
I use a large piston Eb in most all of my quintet playing. The sound, playing characteristics and overall blend work most effective on large Eb for me.

As for listening to other tuba players in quintets, I also like large Eb tubas, 4/4 and sometimes 5/4 CC tubas. Not crazy about most F tuba sounds I've heard in quintet (too lean/skimpy, farty low register) nor 6/4 tubas (too thuddy/heavy/'orchestral'). Those are my opinions.

Use what you like, just do it well and keep in mind the overall group sound/blend

[Rick Denney]

My answer: The ability to emulate a trombone in arrangements intended for that instrument, the ability to fit within the context of narrowly focused instruments, the ability to put a floor under the group, the ability to play any style from Gregorian chant to jazz, the ability to be strong without being too broad, complete control over pitch—no hiding in a quintet—,and the ability to play quietly in the upper register.

Oh, I thought you asked what makes a good quintet player.

I have used a Bb rotary Cerveny (at i time when I could do fewer of those things even than now), a Yamaha 621 F tuba, (presently) a B&S F tuba (Symphonie-style fully graduated bore, similar to Joe’s), and whatever Bb tuba was available to me when the B&S was too tight-a$$ed.

I just traded a large 4/4 Bb tuba for a small 4/4 Bb tuba specifically for use in quintet. My big tubas were either too broad (Holton) or too intensely loud (Hirsbrunner), both requiring a triumph of will and technique to make them work. The little Eastman EBB534 makes a contained but characteristic sound in a quintet context, and the work I have to do seems greatly minimized. But it doesn’t go trombone-like easily, and F is still more secure for me in the upper register, so I will continue to use both.

Rick “whose quintet has added more projecting power with a change in personnel” Denney

[opus37]

I play in two quintets. I play an Eb and find it to best for the role. With that said, the sound characteristic of horn can make all the difference. I have played a Kanstul 66 in quintet. Those horns have a very large 20 inch bell. The sound is quite mellow (more like a flugle horn than a trumpet). That horn, in my opinion, is not the best for quintet. For community band or other larger groups, they are great. I currently play a miraphone 383 for quintet. I find it to be perfect. It has a brighter sound that better matches the trombone and trumpets. So, in summary, it not just the key of the horn but the sound characteristics that matters.

[Michael Grant]

I have played BBb, CC, F and Eb in quintets. Miraphone, Cerveny, Yamaha, Kroner, B & S and Willson. For my money, the most versatile horn in that setting for me is the Willson 3400 Eb, followed closely by a 3/4 CC (Rudy Meinl, old Cerveny horn I had, etc.). What I like about the Willson is it’s ability to handle the light, lyrical stuff while being big enough to hold it’s own in large brass ensembles, wind ensembles, etc. It is also an amazing solo horn. A great all around horn. Just my 2 cents.

[The Brute Squad]

When I see someone call a horn a "good quintet horn," I typically read it as "not so giant as to be difficult not to cover up the rest of the quintet."

A good enough player could still play a 6/4 in a quintet and still stay in balance, but smaller horns make it easier.

[hbcrandy]

The player

Good answer! Right on the money!

[Mark E. Chachich]

Casca Grossa wrote:
The player

Good answer! Right on the money!
hbcrandy

I agree! Control of the tuba is the issue and that is up to the musician.
Mark

[GC]

When I see someone call a horn a "good quintet horn," I typically read it as "not so giant as to be difficult not to cover up the rest of the quintet."

A good enough player could still play a 6/4 in a quintet and still stay in balance, but smaller horns make it easier.

I once owned a 6/4 CC tuba that I was absolutely incapable of playing at a low volume level. I had just come back to tuba after a 24-year layoff, and my control was not good. I had difficulty not covering up even medium-sized brass groups, much less a quintet. I unloaded it to another player who managed to effortlessly keep it under control. It found a much better home.

I later had a 25J that could shake a room, but I had little trouble keeping it under control for a quintet. Now I use a good Eb for everything, and it's a great horn for quintets.

[Diego A. Stine]

From experience, a midsize CC is workable, but I had to be very conscious about how I fit in with the quintet. The player matters the most when it comes to making it sound good. I've used my MW 182 (tiny F tuba) in quintet and have had no complaints, so the player matters more. But if you have the means to make it easier for yourself, then do so.

[Worth]

I've used my B&H Imperial Eb 15" for quintet, and in my hands it just isn't enough to cover the full range of selections. I play in two quintets and a decent community orchestra. My 5/4 CC when handled properly can be extremely delicate, nimble and almost cat-like when need be. I've found it very welcome, adaptable, and fun to play in quintet. Mouthpiece choice is another thing and YMMV. I've found that the Dillon Roylance works best for overall control in quintet, but in Symphony Orchestra the Blokepiece Symphony with (now) a 32.9 #2 rim offers more power and low end punch when it's required. You know what else makes a good quintet horn in the right hands? I have a buddy who is an excellent player and plays horn parts on an F Mellophone and gets the most amazing sound

[Bnich93]

The price of the demo EEb seemed VERY good to me, and I could have loaded it up and taken it.

If you are referring to a 377s and are referring to a decently distant timeline, I may own the demo you are talking about. I bought it for the express purpose of serving small chamber groups and couldnt be happier with its performance.

[MartyNeilan]

...Maybe a couple of nightmares (Bach's My Spirit Be Joyful in the key of D), but I could work those up...

Best
Quintet
Piece
Ever
.........

[MikeMason]

Re: joyful spirit- one of my trumpet players put it in C for me. Lays down so much better

[Michael Grant]

...Maybe a couple of nightmares (Bach's My Spirit Be Joyful in the key of D), but I could work those up...

Best
Quintet
Piece
Ever
.........

I wouldn’t agree with that. In fact, with 7,303 users on this forum, I would venture to say you might get around 7,000 different answers as to what is the best quintet piece ever. I couldn’t name just one. I could name a top ten list but I don’t think I could name one as my absolute favorite or the best. In fact, my top ten would probably be a top 25 as there are so many great quintet pieces that I couldn’t narrow it down to just ten. Regarding your selection, I do like that piece but I heard it played at a wedding by a pretty sad quintet. If I didn’t know the piece and was a non-brass player / non-musician hearing it for the first time at the wedding, I would have thought it was the worst brass quintet piece ever. They really butchered it. I think it was followed by “Exorcism of the Not So Joyful Spirit”. It took me two weeks to get over it. That was a number of years ago so it again is in my good graces.