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Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby MartyNeilan » Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:57 pm

WC8KCY wrote:I am hoping someone will post a video of the Tiger played with an experienced tubist's finesse, with a well-matched mouthpiece.

All I'm hearing now is blat, blat, blat.

MartyNeilan wrote:I also found this video that gives a better characteristic sound:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mrtEsQYDJs

When the recorder (probably a cellphone) moves away from the instrument, the sound is pretty decent. Up close, there is distortion on the attacks. (Kudos to the tuba player for playing with a strong crisp attack.)
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Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby Jose the tuba player » Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:06 pm

MartyNeilan wrote:
Jose the tuba player wrote:I have a video of scott sutherland http://forums.chisham.com/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=20 playing the tiger tuba at namm but it is really bad quality.
i tried three at namm and only one of the three actually worked, the salesman told me it would be 800 retail and about 400 for those that would resell these tubas.

Please explain what you mean by only one of the three actually worked - is it valves sticking, leaks, something else?
(Often instruments at shows have issues due to improper handling, lack of oiling, etc)

The video i took looks fine on my phone but when i played it on my pc it looked like 144p
and there were three tiger tubas , 2 black ones and one red one.
The first tiger tuba (which scott played) was fine except the fourth valve paddle was a bit lower than the rest.
the red one i tried was leaking from the second valve and it was unplayable.
the other black tuba was horrible, the 3rd and fourth valves were stuck they were way to stiff to move.
the tiger tuba is ridiculously light it weighs nothing! i remember throwing it up in the air a little and the salesman freaked.
i think it was decent, not something i would pay 800-1000 for, as scott was saying after the video what purpose do these actually serve at the price?
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Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby Donn » Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:59 pm

Tubahokk wrote:I have a question from the video about the playing of the plastic tuba. Not trying to be smart as the guy is very good, but when playing, he really puffs out his cheeks. I have always been told that that is self defeating technique. Any comments on that?


My personal take on this is, a little movement in the cheeks might be OK, a lot is not. Don't be like this trumpet player -
Image
great player, but he has messed up his face. That probably goes beyond what could even theoretically happen playing tuba, but anyway. However, I'm some dolt with a computer on the internet, and if you have been getting instruction from a bona fide teacher actually present in the room, whatever he or she says is very likely more on target than my BS.
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Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby toobagrowl » Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:07 am

I hear a slight buzzing or rattling sound when that tuba is played.

The real test will be when a good tuba player plays that tuba in an ensemble setting to get a better idea of how it blends, projects, etc.
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Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby Alex C » Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:40 am

I found one through Ali Baba, it was around $500 but shipping was also $500. I would have taken a chance with a dodgy seller for $500 but not $1000. I'll wait until they are selling in the US for under $800. Guess, I'll have to re-learn BBb fingerings. :cry:
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Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby dmmorris » Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:43 am

^ +1 ...I'll probably get one after the bugs are worked-out and the price is lower / more reasonable....it's plastic after all!
beta 14??..........OK!

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Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby Three Valves » Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:39 pm

Mack Plastic??
Who needs four valves??

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Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby MartyNeilan » Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:50 pm

the elephant wrote:Email from the makers:

Hi Mr.Wade Rackley,

Thank you for interested in Tiger plastic instruments.

US retailers have not been determined yet. If you'd like purchase now, place an order on our website and state color option.

Thank you.

Best regards,

Zhong Qiang

Rheinsound (Beijing) Musical Instrument Co.,Ltd
2-7F Meilin Garden 33# Zi-Zhu-Yuan Rd
Beijing P.R.CHINA 100089
Tel: 86-10-885 501 99
Fax: 86-10-885 504 37
http://www.rheinsoundmusic.com" target="_blank


No mention of price in the email. The price on their website was like $1100 last time I looked. That was without shipping. I think that is their equivalent of MSRP and the Alibaba price is more accurate. However, until someone in the US decides to import them in bulk the shipping will still stay very high, price and shipping dropping as order size increases, as with anything else like this. They are not interested in selling to us directly, so stuff is set high. I wonder who will end up seriously marketing these things and what the price will end up being.

Wade,
There is a link in my previous post, that included price:
MartyNeilan wrote:It looks like you could order one from here:
http://www.rheinsoundmusic.com/index.php?m=content&c=index&a=show&catid=22&id=8
If I had $960 lying around with nothing better to do I would give it a try, but the $350 shipping is a bummer.

This would make a great "scooter tuba" if the price and quality were right.
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Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby apsapienza » Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:59 pm

they already had rotors on the horn, why didn't they put a 5th valve on this thing?
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Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby Ulli » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:34 pm

the elephant wrote:No mention of price in the email. The price on their website was like $1100 last time I looked.


Look at 'How is the NAMM show?'

Rheinsound (Beijing) Musical Instrument Co.,Ltd. wrote to me:
Hello Mr. ,
Thank you for interested in Tiger plastic instruments.
We are going to exhibit on NAMM show. Frankfurt music show have not been confirmed yet.
Net weight of tuba is 5.5kg. Price is $960, freight extra.
Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you.
Best regards,
Zhong Qiang

Could anyone test that tuba for me and all interested persons here?
Thank you.
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Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby bisontuba » Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:13 pm

Ulli wrote:
the elephant wrote:No mention of price in the email. The price on their website was like $1100 last time I looked.


Look at 'How is the NAMM show?'

Rheinsound (Beijing) Musical Instrument Co.,Ltd. wrote to me:
Hello Mr. ,
Thank you for interested in Tiger plastic instruments.
We are going to exhibit on NAMM show. Frankfurt music show have not been confirmed yet.
Net weight of tuba is 5.5kg. Price is $960, freight extra.
Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you.
Best regards,
Zhong Qiang

Could anyone test that tuba for me and all interested persons here?
Thank you.
Ulli


Hi-
NAMM has come & gone. Unless someone brings one to the Army Tuba Conf. or an ITEA Regional Conf., maybe the Texas Conference (TMEA) might have one there via Brook Mays....
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Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby tuben » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:48 pm

apsapienza wrote:they already had rotors on the horn, why didn't they put a 5th valve on this thing?


Speaking of which.... The video made me not feel so bad about the slightly clanky valves on my Alex as it has 40+ years on that tiger.
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Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby Mark Finley » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:52 pm

If they have one at TMEA , you bet your sweet bippy I'll be testing it out.
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Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby Deleted dp » Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:36 pm

Jose the tuba player wrote:i tried three at namm and only one of the three actually worked, the salesman told me it would be 800 retail and about 400 for those that would resell these tubas.
That is a ringing endorsement...(yes that was a "pun") :shock:
why would anyone buy something from someone who didn't even know enough to bring playable samples? What happened to the days when show horns were the best current examples of the model you wanted to try? Answer: salesmen can (even) still know less than their (intended) market...not a very flattering situation.
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Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby MartyNeilan » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:33 pm

the elephant wrote:Try to buy a Jeep Wrangler and ask the salesman how to raise and lower the soft top or how to remove the hard top. Ask what the swaybar disconnects and lockers on the Rubicon actually do. Then ask for a demonstration of all this. Chances are that he will manage to un-sell the vehicle. I already knew just about everything to know about my Jeep prior to walking onto the lot. I bought it in under 30 minutes at a decent price. The salesperson managed to badly damage a demo vehicle in the process and learned to either steer her "ups" away from Wranglers or to learn more about Wranglers. (She disconnected and locked up in 4WD and then drove me all over the area in parking lots and in traffic. She smoked the clutch and lockers and put visible divots in the rear tires from all the wheel hop she forced on the vehicle. It was epic. Obviously I purchased a different example that only had 2 miles on the odo and still had the packing plastic on everything.) :twisted:

Most instrument salesmen today seem to be like this. They only know the barest of minimums, usually for the top selling items only. The other "stuff" is that "stuff" that his boss made him drag to the show that he will make zero commission from. So why bother learning anything about stuff that will only waste your time? This is the normal attitude these days. I remember when buying a demo tuba meant that it was probably a super fine example. Back then you had to wait until the circuit of shows was over so they no longer needed this superb, hand-picked example. Now I see horns at shows that play like crap and are not actually fully functional.

Whatever. We are willfully teaching our kids to be like this; we do this to ourselves. :shock:

How true. One of the reasons for the dismal sale of the electric Leaf vehicle is because salesmen don't want to be bothered charging them. They also actively dissuade customers from purchasing them due to additional paperwork involved (because of the charging station that may be installed in their home.)
I have heard way too many reports of $$,$$$ instruments at shows not working just because they need their valves or slides lubricated, or some other simple routine maintenance.
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Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby orleansjon » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:16 pm

Donn wrote:
Don't be like this trumpet player -


i saw that you followed up with he's a "great player," Donn, but the phrase you were looking for is "Grammy Award Winning player."

Shezbie didn't damage the muscle in his cheek by puffing them while playing. (If that's what happens then Dizzie would've had to hold both cheeks!)

Shezbie played LOUDLY, for many years. Plain and simple.

So puff if it works for you. Everybody is different.
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Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby Lectron » Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:32 am

Hahaha

Great vid :D
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Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby LoyalTubist » Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:37 pm

It's not to be a "primary" tuba if you're professional. But, so long as you keep the color conservative (like gold, gray, or black), it would be nice to take on car trips. I noticed they took down the pink one from the website. (Yeah, I'm a stright guy who likes pink. Want to make something of it?) I may seriously consider buying one of these in the next few weeks. I like the black one, to be honest.
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Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby PaulSchmidt » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:30 pm

Hello all

I bought one of the Tiger tubas in February (2015). I paid via PayPal on the Rheinsound Music website, I think the amount was around $900 US, plus roughly $300 for airmail shipping (not a bad price from Beijing to Chicago). I would like to share some of my experiences and answer a few questions about this instrument; hopefully it will be helpful to others.

I also recently posted a 48 minute demonstration and in depth review of the Tiger tuba:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04Jx_xCZOLw

or, search YouTube for "Tiger Plastic Tuba - Demonstration & Review"

While I am just an amateur tuba player, I do like my oddball instruments, and when I saw that this tuba was available, I had to have one!

I first tried to find a dealer, or convince a dealer to carry them. Tried all the major ones in the States, but nobody was interested. At that time, Rheinsound Music's website 'contact us' portal was not producing replies to my attempts at contact, but I had a friend in Beijing call them and soon after, I started getting helpful email communications with 'Zhong' at Rheinsound, and I have found that email communications with the manufacturer have been good since that time (thanks, Zhong!). I see that Zhong has also participated in this thread on this forum.

I made my purchase using PayPal on Rheinsound's website. Zhong advised that the black color I chose was not in stock, but that I would not need to wait long. Three days later I received an email saying that my Tiger had just been handed over to the Chinese postal carrier, and I was given a tracking number. A couple days after that, I checked the tracking and saw that the Tiger was already at JFK airport in New York, and had been handed over to US customs. Five or six days later, the post office's truck pulled up with a large cardboard box, and the Tiger had arrived. The Tiger was inside its included gig bag, which was just inside the cardboard box with just a few piece of foam padding here and there. I had to remember that this is a light weight horn made from tough ABS plastic, and since denting was not a possibility, it would have been a waste to put lots of padding in the box. So, very quick shipment and delivery!

The Tiger is made from molded ABS plastic pieces, glued together and painted with what I think is a lacquer finish. The finish seems durable enough if handled reasonably, but being paint it can scrape off, but then it can also be touched up. Rheinsound says that they will provide replacement parts, repair parts and glue, and finish touchup stuff upon request.

I was very worried about the valves, thinking "how can they make plastic valves that work well"? As it turns out, the valve casings have an internal brass sleeve, sort of the way that aluminum car engine blocks still have steel cylinder sleeves. The brass sleeve is glued inside the outer plastic shell of the valve casing. The valve rotor appears to be machined from aluminum (I have read that the rotors are stainless steel, but these are so light weight that I think aluminum is more likely. It appears that the valve rotor has some sort of surface treatment, as it is apparently not plain unfinished metal, but I don't recognize what the finish actually is. It might be plated or anodized or something like that.

Except for the aforementioned metal parts in the valves, the only other metal on the Tiger is in the valve springs, valve linkages, and water key spring.

The Tiger weighs almost exactly 65% of what my Mirphone 186 weighs, but feels like it is a third of the weight.

I am very pleased with how the Tiger sounds, and its intonation is in line with other good mainstream tubas. I find that it plays easier in the high register than any other tuba I own, and is about the same on the low end.

Being plastic, the whole horn has a lot of give and take, in terms of rigidity.....nothing on the instrument is very stiff.....but is has lots of bracing. Some people have commented that they don't care for the look of the large "H" shaped bracket that supports the valve levers, but due to the lack of rigidity I don't think the normal way of supporting these levers would work very well. The valve keys are plastic, but in this instance they appear to be molded from a fiber-filled composite material; these levers are the only plastic parts that are not painted, and they have a tan color.

Some had opined that plastic instruments don't project sound. I don't know where this comes from, since in my experience I have played outdoors with people using p-Bones and plastic trumpets, and could hear them just fine from a distance. I have been to ball games where opposing teams' bands used fiberglass sousaphones in one band and brass ones in the other band, and the difference in sound projection was not too great. I took my Tiger to a rehearsal of a large symphonic band and asked the director to comment on the apparent sound difference when I switched back and forth between the Tiger and my brass German rotary tuba, and he said the Tiger sounded fine to him, and even the French Horns came over later to complement the sound, and they sit on the other side of the group.

I do have a few reservations about some details on this instrument:

- My Tiger's valves were quite sluggish when I received it, and I shot some Hetman rotor oil down the slides, and put some Hetman bearing & linkage oil in the bearings. Rheinsound recommends Al Cass "Fast" oil (a petroleum piston valve oil) for the rotors, and Hetman #12 oil (actually a rotor oil) for the bearings. I took the valves apart (they come apart just like any other rotary valves), cleaned them and re-lubed them using Rheinsound's recommended oils; they then worked just fine. When I later did my YouTube video, I took the valves apart again and ended up using only Hetman oils (the lightest viscosity rotor oil and the lightest viscosity bearing & linkage oil on the bearings.

- My own research suggests that ABS plastic 'might' be negatively affected by prolonged exposure to petroleum based lubricants. I am not sure of Rheinsound is aware of this or not. I also communicated with Hetman, who agreed that there might be some long term damage to the horn if petroleum based oils and slide grease were used, but also suggested that Hetman products are not designed with plastic instruments in mind, either. It is my own guess that non-petroleum (synthetic) valve oils are the best bet for this tuba.

- The front and rear bearing plates on the valves are just holes in the plates, without the usual raised shoulders that provide a greater bearing surface area to deal with the side loads on the rotor spindles. This may result in premature wear on the bearing, but I don't have any expert insight into this, it is just my own thought. Ozwinds in Australia, who is a dealer, told me they are working with Rheinsound to possibly revise the design of the bearings. Having said all that, the valves on my Tiger are working well now.

Should this be purchased and somebody's primary tuba? I think not, unless the person has some physical issues that make handling a brass one either too heavy or risk of dropping the tube is too great.

But I think this instrument is a 'real' and useful one, for all sorts of situations.

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Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby barry grrr-ero » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:10 pm

I've listened to three different Youtuba postings now. Just going by these three guys, the horn sounds more secure and focused in the low register than in the upper register. The lower register seems to speak immediately, like a C tuba, and has a pretty beefy 'core' to the sound. Anybody else get the same impression?
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