Does the gap matter?

[pgym]

IF you want to try having the mp out a bit further, get some of the super thin, laminated cork Ferees sells and wrap it around the shank and glue it on - rather like corking a clarinet joint. That can be easily reversed. This can also be a "repair" for a mp which has been turned down, or just doesn't fit a large receiver.

Teflon tape works just as well (if not better), and is widely available, a heckuva lot cheaper, and don't require no steenkin' glue.

[DonnieMac]

Let us plow old ground: http://www.bobreeves.com/products/gap.htm" target="_blank

As well as an ancient US Patent: 3,808,935. The "gap" thing is well worked over and trumpet players adore it and have for a long time.

[Alan Baer]

Just as a clarification....
The gaps that I stated at the master class...
C tuba .350 Bb can go a bit more if more clarity is needed.
F tuba .125 Eb a little more if more clarity is needed.
These are starting points.... EVERY player is different and may need to adjust to their own taste. BUT... as I seen, these numbers work for MOST..
REMEMBER..
American shank is .520 at the end
EURO is .538
PT is .530
for every .001 you are off of these numbers.. the mouthpiece moves in or out of the horn .018!! This is huge...AND makes a huge difference in the way the instrument plays..
Know what your instrument needs!! Just because it is made in Europe does not mean that it needs a Euro shank!!!
have it measured and find out..
Good luck!
A Baer

[ghmerrill]

Just because it is made in Europe does not mean that it needs a Euro shank!!!
have it measured and find out..
A Baer

I think that on tubas there seems to be much more variability (than on other instruments) among receiver sizes and tapers. On my old oval euphonium, I'm not sure what other "standard" taper would reasonably fit into it other than a European one (which when I contacted Amati they confirmed was what I should use). I tried several mouthpieces in it (a Kelly, a few Wicks), but nothing really great resulted.

Last week I finally bit the bullet and went the Doug Elliott route for the mouthpieces for my euphonia. For the oval euph he sent two shanks for trial. One appeared to seat to the same depth as the SM4M I had been using. With what was a close approximation of a 3AL rim/cup, it worked quite well. The other seated further into the receiver: magic! A clearly noticeable improvement in the sound of the instrument across its range. There was absolutely no question that this shank was vastly superior on this instrument. It makes it a really nice-sounding horn.

[opus37]

Just as a clarification....
The gaps that I stated at the master class...
C tuba .350 Bb can go a bit more if more clarity is needed.
F tuba .125 Eb a little more if more clarity is needed.

Thank you for this clarification. Gap was just one of many great tips you gave during the master class. You gave a great presentation, Thank you!!!

[arpthark]

Hmm...

[Dan Schultz]

.. / .-.. .. -.- . / .-..-. .-- --- -- .- -. --..-- / .-- --- -- .- -. .-..-. --..-- .-..-. / .-..-. -.-- --- ..- -. --. / --. .. .-. .-.. --..-- .-..-. / .- -. -.. / .-..-. .-.. .- -.. -.-- / .-- .. .-.. .-.. .--. --- .-- . .-. .-..-. / --- -.- --..-- / -... ..- - / .- -- / -. --- - / -.-. .-. .- --.. -.-- / .- -... --- ..- - / -- ..- -.-. .... / --- ..-. / - .... . / .-. . ... - / --- ..-. / - .... . / ... - ..- ..-. ..-. .-.-.- / -. --- --..-- / .. / -.. --- -. .----. - / - .... .. -. -.- / .. - / -- .- - - . .-. ... .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.-.- .- - / .-.. . .- ... - / -. --- - / .- -. -.-- -- --- .-. . .-.-.-

Joe... I spent four years copying this stuff in the Navy. What the hell is di-da-di-di-da-dit?

[gwwilk]

.. / .-.. .. -.- . / .-..-. .-- --- -- .- -. --..-- / .-- --- -- .- -. .-..-. --..-- .-..-. / .-..-. -.-- --- ..- -. --. / --. .. .-. .-.. --..-- .-..-. / .- -. -.. / .-..-. .-.. .- -.. -.-- / .-- .. .-.. .-.. .--. --- .-- . .-. .-..-. / --- -.- --..-- / -... ..- - / .- -- / -. --- - / -.-. .-. .- --.. -.-- / .- -... --- ..- - / -- ..- -.-. .... / --- ..-. / - .... . / .-. . ... - / --- ..-. / - .... . / ... - ..- ..-. ..-. .-.-.- / -. --- --..-- / .. / -.. --- -. .----. - / - .... .. -. -.- / .. - / -- .- - - . .-. ... .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.-.- .- - / .-.. . .- ... - / -. --- - / .- -. -.-- -- --- .-. . .-.-.-

Using a Morse code translator this becomes:
"I LIKE "WOMAN, WOMAN"," "YOUNG GIRL," AND "LADY WILLPOWER" OK, BUT AM NOT CRAZY ABOUT MUCH OF THE REST OF THE STUFF. NO, I DON'T THINK IT MATTERS...AT LEAST NOT ANYMORE"

[Kevin Hendrick]

.. / .-.. .. -.- . / .-..-. .-- --- -- .- -. --..-- / .-- --- -- .- -. .-..-. --..-- .-..-. / .-..-. -.-- --- ..- -. --. / --. .. .-. .-.. --..-- .-..-. / .- -. -.. / .-..-. .-.. .- -.. -.-- / .-- .. .-.. .-.. .--. --- .-- . .-. .-..-. / --- -.- --..-- / -... ..- - / .- -- / -. --- - / -.-. .-. .- --.. -.-- / .- -... --- ..- - / -- ..- -.-. .... / --- ..-. / - .... . / .-. . ... - / --- ..-. / - .... . / ... - ..- ..-. ..-. .-.-.- / -. --- --..-- / .. / -.. --- -. .----. - / - .... .. -. -.- / .. - / -- .- - - . .-. ... .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.-.- .- - / .-.. . .- ... - / -. --- - / .- -. -.-- -- --- .-. . .-.-.-

Using a Morse code translator this becomes:
"I LIKE "WOMAN, WOMAN"," "YOUNG GIRL," AND "LADY WILLPOWER" OK, BUT AM NOT CRAZY ABOUT MUCH OF THE REST OF THE STUFF. NO, I DON'T THINK IT MATTERS...AT LEAST NOT ANYMORE"

[Dan Schultz]

.. / .-.. .. -.- . / .-..-. .-- --- -- .- -. --..-- / .-- --- -- .- -. .-..-. --..-- .-..-. / .-..-. -.-- --- ..- -. --. / --. .. .-. .-.. --..-- .-..-. / .- -. -.. / .-..-. .-.. .- -.. -.-- / .-- .. .-.. .-.. .--. --- .-- . .-. .-..-. / --- -.- --..-- / -... ..- - / .- -- / -. --- - / -.-. .-. .- --.. -.-- / .- -... --- ..- - / -- ..- -.-. .... / --- ..-. / - .... . / .-. . ... - / --- ..-. / - .... . / ... - ..- ..-. ..-. .-.-.- / -. --- --..-- / .. / -.. --- -. .----. - / - .... .. -. -.- / .. - / -- .- - - . .-. ... .-.-.- .-.-.- .-.-.- .- - / .-.. . .- ... - / -. --- - / .- -. -.-- -- --- .-. . .-.-.-

Using a Morse code translator this becomes:
"I LIKE "WOMAN, WOMAN"," "YOUNG GIRL," AND "LADY WILLPOWER" OK, BUT AM NOT CRAZY ABOUT MUCH OF THE REST OF THE STUFF. NO, I DON'T THINK IT MATTERS...AT LEAST NOT ANYMORE"

So.... di-da-di-di-da-dit is a quote mark? Never heard of it!

[dwerden]

Yes, the gap matters, at least on a euphonium. I have an Adams Custom euphonium and recently posted a blog article specifically about this.I also did some measurements on gap (and extension outside the receiver) among several popular mouthpieces in this horn. You can find it all here, along with my general opinion:

http://www.dwerden.com/blog3/display_bl ... A2AF9286D0

I remember talking to Brian Bowman in 1976 about this. His own mp at the time had a turned-down (reduced) shank so it fit further into his Besson. He said it made the horn more responsive.

[joh_tuba]

Just as a clarification....
The gaps that I stated at the master class...
C tuba .350 Bb can go a bit more if more clarity is needed.
F tuba .125 Eb a little more if more clarity is needed.
These are starting points.... EVERY player is different and may need to adjust to their own taste. BUT... as I seen, these numbers work for MOST..
REMEMBER..
American shank is .520 at the end
EURO is .538
PT is .530
for every .001 you are off of these numbers.. the mouthpiece moves in or out of the horn .018!! This is huge...AND makes a huge difference in the way the instrument plays..
Know what your instrument needs!! Just because it is made in Europe does not mean that it needs a Euro shank!!!
have it measured and find out..
Good luck!
A Baer

There is no way Alan remembers this BUT many years ago I sheepishly asked him to measure the receiver on my PT6 and tell me which shank mouthpiece I should be using. He was exceedingly generous with his time and set to work with a micrometer doing a lot of mental math along the way. Final Answer: American.

Having recently purchased a micrometer and having access to multiple B&S tubas(F, CC, & BBb all with identical receivers) I decided to pull up this thread and 'test the math' to satisfy my academic curiosity. My measuring tool was a paperclip so these numbers are subject to *some* error BUT it would appear that the 'choke' point(where the leadpipe rests inside the receiver is approximately 1.75" from the insertion side. Checking several American shank mouthpieces suggests that a typical insertion depth is about 1.34" and a typical 'gap' would be .4ish". That is .06" *more* gap for a CC and .276" *more* for F than recommended by Alan Baer. According to the quote above potentially VERY significant.

I'm more than happy to have someone with more precise measurements correct me.

Picture of 'ideal CC gap':https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2QfbI ... sp=sharing
Potential CC 'gap error':https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2QfbI ... sp=sharing
Picture of 'ideal F gap':https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2QfbI ... sp=sharing
Potential F 'gap error':https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2QfbI ... sp=sharing

ALL THAT SAID, A quick google also provided this link: http://www.melton-meinl-weston.de/downl ... -Ursus.pdf

It would appear that Baer influenced MW tubas are sporting a new receiver design. Can anyone comment on how this receiver differs?

EDITED to correct my math, clarify the numbers, and add links to pictures.

[PaulTkachenko]

I'm about to get the receiver changed on my old 621 Bb to the current larger receiver.

I anticipate an improvement - I'm guessing that's why Yamaha changed it - at a guess in the early 90s?