I studied with Mr. Oostendorp for a short time. If I'm not mistaken he ordered both horns through Het Residentie Orkest (The Hague Orchestra) when he used to play with them. The one with the correct bell he kept (and yes, he paid for) and he still plays on it.
The other horn remained with the orchestra. At that time it I believe it received a bell that Mr. Monke had available in the shop. Where the tuba is now and if this horn ever received the intended bell before the money ran out...???
I'd never read the link from 2006 till now. What I do know is that the differences between Monke's tuba and the York were intentional (the dependent 5th, for example). Mr. Oostendorp has built up his own brass building chops over the years, experimenting with tubas and mpc's. His own custom specifications for this tuba were thus not only based on what was available on the market at that time, but also with what he was able to concoct himself. I don't know what the metal spec's on the horn but I do remember the metal being softer than other tubas, but not necessarily thinner.
Like many tubists, Mr. Oostendorp had taken lessons from Arnold Jacobs (1 day? 1 year?), so it's not unthinkable that he made measurements of the York at that point in time.
Stryk wrote:What copy is closest to the York that Mr. Jacobs played?
Yamaha YCB-826S or an older "best of" Nirschl "York Model"
Stryk wrote:Why did York never make more?
How many more were ordered?
Joe-
This is the second time since ITEC you mentioned older/original Nirschl 6/4 as the one you preferred...what differences in playing characteristics did you notice from older to new version of this model?
Mark
tbn.al wrote:Actually $39,775. If you can get Yamaha to agree to make you one.
It's my understanding you have to be invited to purchase one.
The Yamaha guy at ITEC made it VERY clear that is NOT the case and that they would WELCOME (and expedite) orders.
bloke "It's a damn-good tuba, and plays as well as the tuba it copies...except no buffed-thin parts, no wear, no leaky slides, and no red-rot. The been-around-the-block 'demo' model Nirschl York Model (not for sale) plays equally well, in my estimation - though I only put a *tuner on the YCB-826."
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*kind 186-ish intonation-wise w/ a slightly-flat 5th partial, typical 6/4-CC sharp F-in-the-staff, not much of anything else that was very far off. That short mouthpipe, obviously, requires the player to either "wear" the tuba or use a stand.
Sounds like a group buy/timeshare time ill chip in for two days a month
jonesmj wrote:
Joe-
This is the second time since ITEC you mentioned older/original Nirschl 6/4 as the one you preferred...what differences in playing characteristics did you notice from older to new version of this model?
Mark
Great question. I have played 4 of the original (c. 2000) instruments, mine included, and 2 of later vintage. The most obvious difference is the spread of the pistons. The originals offered a very comfortable hand position with pistons that are tightly arranged. The newer units, so to speak, offer the opposite. I found this layout to be quite annoying. Maybe I am just too used to the original, but the great span of the new pistons made my delicate, princess-like right hand ache almost immediately.
As far as sound characteristics.....big tubas make good, usable sounds. It's all in how they are driven.
As the owner of the prototype of this model, I can confirm what Cameron said about the pistons. They feel great! That comes with a price though. I was considering a set of the Martin Wilk pistons for my horn and the valve cluster on my horn is not the normal Meinlschmidt valve block they use today (I am told) but instead, a block made by Böhm & Meinl. This makes switching out the valves a bit more difficult since Martin is making his valves to fit the Meinlschmidt block which they also use (I am told) on tubas like the MW Thor.
I haven't played many of the newer Nirschls but the level of quality is so good on these horns that I bet there are very few clunkers out there. Mine plays well enough that I've never even been curious about the Yamaha, which I'm sure is a really good horn too.
My opinion for what it's worth...
Principal Tuba - Miami Symphony, Kravis Pops
Tuba/Euphonium Instructor - Florida International University,
Broward College, Miami Summer Music Festival
A trumpet player friend of mine was a close friend of Mr. Jacobs. Last year he asked me about my horn; I asked him if he knew about the fixation of tubists on the CSO Yorks. He said he asked Mr. Jacobs about it once, and the the answer was, the reason it sounded so good was, "I put the good notes in it myself".
If you think about the known history it becomes self evident. Phillip Donatelli ordered the two originals 6/4 CC's from York, but he didn't like them for whatever reason. He sold them to one his student's, Arnold Jacobs, who apparently did like them, because he kept them. Why would another pro order one from York after Donatelli turned them down? Arnold didn't make a name for himself playing those horns until he got the gig with CSO in 1944. York stopped making EVERYTHING during WWII and the family sold the business and they never went back into production after the war. Mystery solved... I think. At least it makes sense to me.
If you think about the known history it becomes self evident. Phillip Donatelli ordered the two originals 6/4 CC's from York, but he didn't like them for whatever reason. He sold them to one his student's, Arnold Jacobs, who apparently did like them, because he kept them. Why would another pro order one from York after Donatelli turned them down? Arnold didn't make a name for himself playing those horns until he got the gig with CSO in 1944. York stopped making EVERYTHING during WWII and the family sold the business and they never went back into production after the war. Mystery solved... I think. At least it makes sense to me.
That pretty well sums it up! And Jake didn't even keep both - one went - then came back.
Not gonna repeat what I have passed on about this again right now.
I played three of those big Nirschls and although the sounds were similar they ranged from "God this thing is hard to play, where are the slots" to "My cat could sound like Jake on this thing" One had belonged to Warren Deck, one belonged to Mike Roylance, and one had belonged to Scott Mendoker. So they all three had great pedigrees and sounded great with their original owners but Boy, were they different from each other. Ed
