An F tuba question

[MaryAnn]

Well, Roger, a bit of history. My friend bought his new from Dillon and mine used to be owned by Scott Mendoker, who traded it in at Dillon and I bought it from there.

MA, muddying the air again.

[Kevin Hendrick]

. . . muddying the air again.

Muddy air? Eww . . .

Better "muddy" than "dairy"! (even if it's in London)

[windshieldbug]

(that hurt!!!)

[jonesbrass]

My Cerveny F is also built to be played in a much higher pitch (like the Germans do), but the tuning slide is about a mile long, so it's no problem to bring it down to A=440. Even quite a bit lower, if need be.

[Steve Inman]

I suspect this horn was built for distribution in Europe where the pitch center runs A=445 and even a lot higher. Many manufacturers make two different tuning slides, to match the pitch where the horn will be shipped. I think that this horn in question originated in Europe and then was sold to someone here without the slide alterations.

I thought so, too Roger, but I've got a 184 CC 'fone that had the same high pitch center. I thought all the domestic Euro horns were 'phones...

OKAY -- here's the question that's just BEGGING to be asked about now:

How much of the "dreaded low C" problem on rotary F tubas is due to the 4th valve tuning slide not being set properly, being too short, etc? That would surely make it hard to center the note, right?

Surely it's not that simple ..... surely?

[Kevin Hendrick]

OKAY -- here's the question that's just BEGGING to be asked about now:

How much of the "dreaded low C" problem on rotary F tubas is due to the 4th valve tuning slide not being set properly, being too short, etc? That would surely make it hard to center the note, right?

Surely it's not that simple ..... surely?

<serious>
That could well be part (maybe a large part) of the problem ...
</serious>

... and don't call me Shirley!

[iiipopes]

I played both of those (Them Basses and National Emblem) last weekend and had a blast -- pun intended. Because in both of those marches the fun parts are doubled with the bones & euphs, I can see where an Eb or F would help solidify the texture quite nicely.

[Allen]

... A friend of mine who has a MW 182, basically identical to my 182, found that the tuning slide was way too short; that is, if you closed your eyes and centered the C in the staff and then looked at the tuner, it was 50 cents sharp. That's pretty sharp!! He got a tuning slide that brought the C in the staff down to pitch, and lo and behold the entire tuba became very, very playable. ...

I had the same problem with a Meinl Weston 32 CC tuba. The standard main tuning slide was for the European A=445 or somesuch. The solution: a call to Matt Walters at Dillon, and the purchase of what MW calls the long main tuning slide.

The Europeans practice ever-escalating pitch anarchy, no doubt heading toward A=500 or more! I imagine that in years to come, a European contrabass tuba will be the same size (and pitch) as a euphonium. On the Continent, they must be fans of Alvin & The Chipmunks.

Cheers,
Allen

[MaryAnn]

I suspect this horn was built for distribution in Europe where the pitch center runs A=445 and even a lot higher. Many manufacturers make two different tuning slides, to match the pitch where the horn will be shipped. I think that this horn in question originated in Europe and then was sold to someone here without the slide alterations.

I thought so, too Roger, but I've got a 184 CC 'fone that had the same high pitch center. I thought all the domestic Euro horns were 'phones...

OKAY -- here's the question that's just BEGGING to be asked about now:

How much of the "dreaded low C" problem on rotary F tubas is due to the 4th valve tuning slide not being set properly, being too short, etc? That would surely make it hard to center the note, right?

Surely it's not that simple ..... surely?

Shirley, (ducking!) it is not that simple. If it were a 4th valve slide problem then the C in the staff would be in tune and not 50 cents sharp.

I did notice at one point that if I plulled the 4th valve slide waaaay out the c become more manageable, but then I couldn't use 4th valve for anything else. No, I trust my very capable and experienced friend on this one, and besides in about a month I"ll find out for myself on his tuba anyway.

Also, my 184 CC from the 1970's is definitely not sharp; it is quite well in tune except for that pesky E in the staff, which is remedied by using 1-2 for it. I'll query Matt about a long tuning slide for the 182 F; my friend had to have one custom made though.


MA

[Allen]

I spent the most part of yesterday on my Firebird playing German blasmusik (matching octaves w/BBb),

You wuss, I played a bunch yesterday AT pitch on my little Eb.

But Bob, do you suppose your listeners heard a tuba sound? Even a trumpet can be played low. But, only a contrabass tuba makes a contrabass tuba sound down low. Smaller equipment down low tends to sound like a bass trombone or (contra)bassoon.

The following unbiased web site explains the differences among the various tubas:
http://www.bandparenting.net/tuba.html

Cheers,
Allen

[MartyNeilan]

The following unbiased web site explains the differences among the various tubas:
http://www.bandparenting.net/tuba.html
Cheers,
Allen

No disrespect to the author of that site. but...

Not so much tubas as overgrown Euphoniums, F Tubas were developed to make it easier for tubists to play the very high tuba parts common in French orchestral music.

I kinda thought F tubas were the first tubas...

[jonesbrass]

Doc, that's what the germans tend to do in their marches, too, play the parts in octaves. The F's really give some definition to the lines, and the blend between both horns is awesome.
I played my F on the Fourth with about 6 other C's and BBb's, and played most of the stuff as written in the contrabass register. It didn't have the breadth of sound that the contras have, but it had a clarity and focus that they generally don't. Definitely could keep up volume-wise. No real intonation problems, either. Gotta love the addition of a bass tuba to the section in a band.

[iiipopes]

Indeed. A couple of seasons ago we had a German march/euph solo that had the tuba parts in octaves. I finally found an Eb to use to double the octaves and blend properly without getting in the way of the euph solo.

[windshieldbug]

Just to sidetrack the thread, has anyone ever tried a Firebird leadpipe on an older F?