Useable "privileged" (or "false") tones

[Donn]

From experience, I know that when someone plays a false tone EEb, I hear that EEb.
I have read (physics research by others, see previous posts on this board) that the open bugle tuba is not amplifying that low EEb very well, if at all. I would expect that some of the lower overtones (2-5) are similarly unamplified.
The higher overtones carrying the note (as far as my ear/brain is concerned) is my logical conclusion.

I think a decent amount of the output really is that Eb, so it would be interesting to get a pointer to the evidence against that. To my ear ... I'm not real good at picking out partials, but I am 1) pretty sure I hear not only the strong 3rd partial Bb, but also a decent higher Eb and a G in there. And it seems to me that without that, you won't hear Eb - no way the wad of higher 13th etc. partials off a Bb open horn are going to add up to an Eb an octave below the staff.

Where we know the fundamental is practically missing and inferred from harmonics is the `real' pedal note, i.e. BBb on the BBb tuba we've been talking about. It isn't there because (as diagrammed here) thanks to the bell's effect raising the frequency of the higher partials, the lowest resonance of the instrument isn't in the series, it's considerably lower. So the pedal note at the bottom of the series isn't really there, but the horn supports its overtones. Meanwhile, that lowest resonance ... I can't find any reference that says exactly where it ends up, but looks coincidentally close to an octave below our false tone.

[pjv]

And now to mess things up:
On my Conn's the false tones are quite open sounding and I feel comfortable using them in certain concert situations (even though I have four valves).
My Alexander BBb is another matter entirely. They are very difficult to get resonating properly, unless....
I use different fingerings then I use on the Conn's or my King. I play the low B 12. Thus
D open
Dd 2
C 1
B 12
Fortunately I really don't need it for the D and Dd; they don't resonate that well so I use my 4th valve combi's. The C and the B however resonate very clearly and are usable in certain concert situations.
Sorry.

[Donn]

Another perspective I've seen here from a long time member is about the opposite - the valves are just the same as the next register up, so D would be 12. I tried it, it can be done and maybe the tone fills in a little and seems less flatulent in a way, but it sure isn't naturally stable there. On my tuba - maybe on his it's perfect, just like that Alexander favors a lower false register. If it has anything to do with the "lowest resonance" issue I mentioned above, maybe that's why no one seems to want to mention some specific frequency for that lowest resonance, because it varies so much across the range of brass instruments and even from one tuba to another.

[Bob Kolada]

I usually play them with the open game being a 4th above the pedal; in that case I seem to always end up open, 2, 1, 12, and 23 -or- 3 by itself (semitone above the pedal). However some horns, like my old 4 valve Conn Eb Giant, like to play the open fake on A natural. Others like to play it 2 full steps above the pedal (D on a Bb).

[dave_matheson]

Thanks so much, everyone. Tons of information here. I'm going to try and "digest" it all this weekend, and play around with my horns to try and see if there are any privileged / false tones hiding inside

[imperialbari]

A practical approach with more discussion:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=51840

Klaus

[DHMTuba]

Take either one of the BBb tubas listed in your signature. Play the Bb below the staff. Now, without pressing any valves down, try and play the Eb below that. Once you find it, you'll know what false tones are.

It's as simple as this! I would only add:
On some instruments the false tones come right out and on others you have to catch them just right to get a decent sound. You might find it easier to figure them out on your sousaphone - they work great on mine.
Arnold Jacobs told me in a lesson, "do them 15 minutes a day and they'll be yours". He was right!
HTH