Useable "privileged" (or "false") tones

[dave_matheson]

Can someone please give me a simple explanation, without resorting to technical jargon / jibber-jabber, as to what "useable privileged tones" are ?

I found an old thread from 2006, and quite frankly, I didn't understand what the H-E-double hockey sticks they were going on about, I don't want to hear about "partials" or any of that other BS ... "just the fax, ma'am"

All I'm asking for is ... '' speak English to me" ... that is all ... lol

[Jay Bertolet]

Take either one of the BBb tubas listed in your signature. Play the Bb below the staff. Now, without pressing any valves down, try and play the Eb below that. Once you find it, you'll know what false tones are.

[gwwilk]

My revelation about 'false tones' occurred in Lee Stofer's shop when I complained that the Eb below Bb below the staff was sharp when fingered 1-4 and flat when fingered 1-2-4. He said 'play it open'. That opened the door to the world of 'privileged tones' for me when I recalled that I had accidently played that note (Eb) at times but didn't recognize it for what it was.

The fingering progression down from there, D = 2, Db = 1, C = 1-2, and B = 2-3, comes naturally. It's the only way to play that B on a 4-valve tuba. I play Michael Davis' 20-Minute Warmup Routine 'Interval Attacks' down an octave where can practice the false tone progression during my warm-up before I try to play it softly at cut time in one breath as written. This warm-up book has supplanted all others since I acquired it because playing it recapitulates all of the fundamentals I need to play at a halfway decent level (I'm no virtuoso by any means, just a Community Band hack!)

Again, "Thanks, Lee!"

[Uncle Buck]

. . .I don't want to hear about "partials" or any of that other BS ... "just the fax, ma'am"

All I'm asking for is ... '' speak English to me" ... that is all ... lol

"Partials" is basic, very basic, English for a brass player. Not understanding partials equals not understanding, at the most basic level, how a brass instrument works.

Your original question - explain false tones without discussing partials, is simply impossible to answer.

[swillafew]

This warm-up book has supplanted all others since I acquired it

It cures what ails me too.

To the OP: 2-3 makes a very nice B natural on a BBb tuba just above the pedal tone. I guess if you only have 3 valves the open Eb mentioned above would be huge in the scheme of things; it would yield another series below it if sounded good.

[toobagrowl]

Privileged/ghost/false tones are the notes between the pedal fundamental (pedal BBb on a BBb tuba) and low Bb on a BBb tuba. Basically you start below low 'E' (fingered 1,2,3 or 2,4) go below that to Eb, D, and so on to pedal BBb. False tones work great on BBb sousaphones and large-bodied/large-belled tubas.

[toobagrowl]

This warm-up book has supplanted all others since I acquired it

It cures what ails me too.

To the OP: 2-3 makes a very nice B natural on a BBb tuba just above the pedal tone.

Yep.

[NCSUSousa]

Here are the basics as I understand them:

When you play a note in the regular overtone series (See iiipopes above for the BBb tuba open series), the note that your lips are buzzing is amplified by resonating in the tuba along with overtones also being produced by your lips. Your brain hears all of it, but mostly the overtones.

When you play a note that's considered 'false' or 'privileged', the fundamental note that you're buzzing is not actually amplified. The overtones that you're buzzing are still amplified by the tuba and that's what you hear.
On instruments with 'good' false tones, the right overtones are amplified well. Your brain does a lot to interpret sound and you can't really tell that the fundamental note isn't being amplified.
On instruments that aren't good with false tones, some of the necessary overtones are also not resonating in the tuba. My tuba is like this - if I try to play EEb without using 1+4, it just sounds like mush coming out of the bell. Change to 1+4 (with only a little bit of tube pull), and that EEb speaks clearly.

Edit - Keeping it even more basic -
If the note is being played with any one of these fingerings (see fingering chart - http://www.olemiss.edu/lowbrass/studio/ ... gering.pdf), then it's not a false tone.
... Except for the low B in the chart that is noted as a false tone

[Donn]

When you play a note that's considered 'false' or 'privileged', the fundamental note that you're buzzing is not actually amplified. The overtones that you're buzzing are still amplified by the tuba and that's what you hear.
On instruments with 'good' false tones, the right overtones are amplified well. Your brain does a lot to interpret sound and you can't really tell that the fundamental note isn't being amplified.

If your ear is going to judge the note by the upper partials, and the Eb series is Eb Eb Bb Eb G Bb etc., while your open horn normally amplifies Bb Bb F Bb D F etc., how is that going to sound like Eb to anyone? Or are you talking about much higher overtones?

My feeling is that there is something to it inasmuch as the Bb 3rd partial is indeed relatively solid, but that the whole story has to account for a weak pedal Eb resonance, and that's where one tuba might do better than another.

[NCSUSousa]

If your ear is going to judge the note by the upper partials, and the Eb series is Eb Eb Bb Eb G Bb etc., while your open horn normally amplifies Bb Bb F Bb D F etc., how is that going to sound like Eb to anyone? Or are you talking about much higher overtones?

I'm talking about the higher overtones.
Rick Denney's page on tuba sound shows that there are a multitude of overtones in the tuba sound that are as strong (or stronger) than the root tone - http://www.rickdenney.com/the_tuba_sound.htm. If you look at his first fft chart, notice that the root note is at -30db. See how many overtones are at -33db or higher?

From experience, I know that when someone plays a false tone EEb, I hear that EEb.
I have read (physics research by others, see previous posts on this board) that the open bugle tuba is not amplifying that low EEb very well, if at all. I would expect that some of the lower overtones (2-5) are similarly unamplified.
The higher overtones carrying the note (as far as my ear/brain is concerned) is my logical conclusion.

The placement of those overtones being important to the false tones also matches my experience in trying to play either false tones or high notes on my tuba. Neither works well for my current instrument, but I've been able to manage both on other instruments (specifically, Conn sousaphones).

[iiipopes]

To recap: a "usable privileged tone" is a tone a perfect fifth below the open 2nd harmonic note series (the "open" valve BBb on a BBb tuba, the "open" CC on a CC tuba, etc., and the valved notes below the open note) that can be intoned
and have the proper harmonic tonal character that is in tune and is not "grainy" in timbre.

So for a typical BBb tuba, the first privileged tone is the Eb-open a perfect fifth below open BBb two ledger lines and a space below the bass clef, then D-2; Db-1; C-12, etc., as listed above.

They are most commonly used on a 3-valve instrument of a medium to large bore and bell, as a continuation below the lowest note not a pedal or privileged tone that can be played with all three valves down, E Nat on a 3-valve BBb, for instance. Some instruments, like many Conn .734 bore souzys, have really good usable privileged tones. Others, like the Besson 3-valve comp I used to own, and some smaller bore and bell horns, do not.

There are various explanations as to why this is so, most of them 1) on horns that have good privileged tones, concerning the propagation of the terminal node on a wide flare bell, or 2) on horns that do not have good privileged tones, the antinode occurring at or near a brace or bend that impedes the resonance.

If you got'em, use'em. Judiciously.

[Donn]

But interesting to note that false notes for a Bb trombone aren't an octave higher than on a BBb tuba. At least, what I understand the conventional wisdom to be, your trombone false tone expert is going to produce a Gb in 1st position, not an Eb. Easier with a small bore trombone, unfortunately. This is what I read, haven't really been able to verify it.

[Donn]

From experience, I know that when someone plays a false tone EEb, I hear that EEb.
I have read (physics research by others, see previous posts on this board) that the open bugle tuba is not amplifying that low EEb very well, if at all. I would expect that some of the lower overtones (2-5) are similarly unamplified.
The higher overtones carrying the note (as far as my ear/brain is concerned) is my logical conclusion.

I think a decent amount of the output really is that Eb, so it would be interesting to get a pointer to the evidence against that. To my ear ... I'm not real good at picking out partials, but I am 1) pretty sure I hear not only the strong 3rd partial Bb, but also a decent higher Eb and a G in there. And it seems to me that without that, you won't hear Eb - no way the wad of higher 13th etc. partials off a Bb open horn are going to add up to an Eb an octave below the staff.

Where we know the fundamental is practically missing and inferred from harmonics is the `real' pedal note, i.e. BBb on the BBb tuba we've been talking about. It isn't there because (as diagrammed here) thanks to the bell's effect raising the frequency of the higher partials, the lowest resonance of the instrument isn't in the series, it's considerably lower. So the pedal note at the bottom of the series isn't really there, but the horn supports its overtones. Meanwhile, that lowest resonance ... I can't find any reference that says exactly where it ends up, but looks coincidentally close to an octave below our false tone.

[pjv]

And now to mess things up:
On my Conn's the false tones are quite open sounding and I feel comfortable using them in certain concert situations (even though I have four valves).
My Alexander BBb is another matter entirely. They are very difficult to get resonating properly, unless....
I use different fingerings then I use on the Conn's or my King. I play the low B 12. Thus
D open
Dd 2
C 1
B 12
Fortunately I really don't need it for the D and Dd; they don't resonate that well so I use my 4th valve combi's. The C and the B however resonate very clearly and are usable in certain concert situations.
Sorry.

[Donn]

Another perspective I've seen here from a long time member is about the opposite - the valves are just the same as the next register up, so D would be 12. I tried it, it can be done and maybe the tone fills in a little and seems less flatulent in a way, but it sure isn't naturally stable there. On my tuba - maybe on his it's perfect, just like that Alexander favors a lower false register. If it has anything to do with the "lowest resonance" issue I mentioned above, maybe that's why no one seems to want to mention some specific frequency for that lowest resonance, because it varies so much across the range of brass instruments and even from one tuba to another.

[Bob Kolada]

I usually play them with the open game being a 4th above the pedal; in that case I seem to always end up open, 2, 1, 12, and 23 -or- 3 by itself (semitone above the pedal). However some horns, like my old 4 valve Conn Eb Giant, like to play the open fake on A natural. Others like to play it 2 full steps above the pedal (D on a Bb).

[dave_matheson]

Thanks so much, everyone. Tons of information here. I'm going to try and "digest" it all this weekend, and play around with my horns to try and see if there are any privileged / false tones hiding inside

[imperialbari]

A practical approach with more discussion:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=51840

Klaus

[DHMTuba]

Take either one of the BBb tubas listed in your signature. Play the Bb below the staff. Now, without pressing any valves down, try and play the Eb below that. Once you find it, you'll know what false tones are.

It's as simple as this! I would only add:
On some instruments the false tones come right out and on others you have to catch them just right to get a decent sound. You might find it easier to figure them out on your sousaphone - they work great on mine.
Arnold Jacobs told me in a lesson, "do them 15 minutes a day and they'll be yours". He was right!
HTH