private lesson contracts

[beforeforever12]

I study with Scott Landry at the University of Louisiana at Lafayette.

The way it works with him is you bring the $20 for the hour, give it to him after the lesson, or I assume you had better call someone for the money. I've never not brought the money, it's not worth it to piss him off as I've been with him for about 3 years now.

However, he is doubling his rate because he just got hired on full-time as the low brass professor (tuba being his main instrument) but is keeping my rate at $20 an hour because he knows that I am serious about music, and finds it worth his while to instruct me.

The way he looks at things, is that he does not care if you won't practice on your own, he sees it as your loss, and the $40 an hour becomes expensive for someone not improving, so really only those that care actually continue to study with him.

[sloan]

Maybe a symphony musician who wants a small, very talented, elite group of students can justify a larger up front financial comittment to weed out some of the applicants. And to make a cushion to afford to take on a very talented kid of no means. But, a grad student or such teaching middle school kids as part of a band program? I don't think so.

In my (limited) experience from the parents' point of view - you have it backwards.

The inexperienced teachers are probably dealing with marginal, uncommitted students - they need the contract.

The symphony player is probably dealing with good students, and good players. Having a student who is a credit to the studio may be more important than getting a few $$ up front.

My kids never took private brass lessons until they were already fairly competent. No teacher ever asked anything more than "pay the money for *this* lesson at the end of *this* lesson". The arrangement was always "if I think you're a rotten student, I'll tell you not to come back; if you don't like the lessons I'm providing, don't come back."

One of my kids took piano lessons arranged through a university "community piano lessons" program. They (the university) insisted on a semester's payment up front. I'm not sure how much of that the instructor actually saw. I don't think the university cared if the student practiced, or showed up for lessons, as long as the tuition check cleared.

For truly "old school", a long, long time ago my wife (to be) was looking for flute instruction in Boston (commuting from Providence). She got several names and arranged an initial visit with 3 possibilities. During her first meeting with one of these, the candidate instructor virtually threw her out of his studio when he found out that she was considering lessons with anyone other than him. They got over it, and she had three years of very good lessons from him.

Oh yeah - she takes lessons now, and brings a check to every lesson. No contracts, and no problems.

Personally, I would never pay up front for lessons with a free-lance individual instructor. If they ask for money up front that's a sign to me that they are used to dealing with marginal students who often simply disappear. I'd hold out for someone whose students are clamoring for more lesson time - not those who don't successfully connect with a large fraction of their students.

"Payment is expected at time of service".

Not after, and not before.

I don't pay money up-front to anyone I don't know - and people I do know don't ask. Anything else is way too adversarial for my taste.

I understand that I have the luxury to deal with the world from this point of view. I respect that many are not so lucky. My only point is that you *get* to that point by building relationships, trust, and reputation - and NOT by perfecting a 5 page syllabus/contract describing every party's duties and responsibilities.

[sloan]

I got jipped.

The word is gypped, and it is an ethnic slur that is not appropriate for use in this or any other setting.

Really? I never knew that. I'm not joking. I'll have to look that one up. I just thought it was Southern slang.

Careful, lederhosen-hijo. "southern" is an ethnic slur that is.....

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Well stated, Wade...I'm sure that will be a great deal of help to many.

The only thing I disagree with, and only because of the difference in my "situation" to yours, is not dealing with unprepared students. I simply don't have enough business to be that picky.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot...I also don't know why you single out female students for requiring a parent to be there. Your males students are every bit as capable of accusing you of wrongdoing...weird, I know, but certainly something to think about.

[Dean]

Sounds like a reason to get a digital security camera with audio and a DVR:

[sloan]

People (musicians, mind you) who have bought lessons for their children say they WILL NOT sign contracts nor pay in advance...so in order to do business with them, your terms are virtually those of a door-to-door salesman...

Only if you go door-to-door offering lessons.

And that, I think, is the point. If your potential students are completely unknown to you, and you are completely unknown to them, you *are* a door-to-door salesman. If you think that's a degrading occupation, then you are right to avoid it. Doesn't mean that everyone else has to agree with you.

If you are working through a school and book your time by the semester, then it makes sense to be paid by the semester. But, you know, it makes *more* sense to have the school pay you a salary, and benefits, and cover your insurance needs, on a semester-by-semester basis - and require you to teach whoever shows up in that time slot.

But, if you are selling your personal reputation and have personal control over choosing your students - then you should not be unknown to the students and the students should not be unknown to you.

By the same token, if you are going it alone (not working under the umbrella of an institution and taking a salary) and taking all comers AND not well known and in great demand....well then, you aren't really in a position to say "I'm the teacher - pay me for a semester up front". The student can say with equal logic "I have the money - give me a semester's worth of lessons and I'll pay at the end".

Both of these schemes are UNjustifiably asymmetric. You're in no position to make such demands, and neither is the student. The only reasonable thing to do is to go lesson-by-lesson.

Again - in my (limited) experience, unknown teachers are in no position to require significant money up front and well-known and respected teachers don't feel the need.

What other jobs do you know of where you get paid for 3 months of work at a time...IN ADVANCE?

Do you also refuse "per service" gigs unless the contractor pays you for 3 months of work in advance?


Lawyers often require retainers - but their work is pay-as-you-go against that account (and the unused portion goes back to the client)

Physicians typically are on a "fee for service" basis. Even HMOs have a co-pay system, usually "due at time of service".

Salaried wage slaves (like me) get paid in anything from 1 week to 1 month increments - AFTER the work is done - not in advance.

If you think that pay-as-you-go is equivalent to door-to-door sales, I think you're just trying to yank a few chains. (what!?! our dear bloke yanking chains???) Your logic simply doesn't hold water.

This idea of a pre-paid long term contract strikes me as the stuff thought up by folk who just don't like the work - or students with no experience spinning elaborate fact-free scenarios. I simply haven't seen ANY experienced teachers who actually work that way (again - freelancers working out of their own home or studio). Well...there was this TaeKwanDo studio once - but they offered unlimited sessions rather than scheduled lesson times - and it was more like a school than private lessons. You *could* get private lessons, but those were arranged on the side - and pay as you go.

I've been waiting to hear (here) from a freelancer who actually works this way. Perhaps I missed it - but I haven't seen it. I prefer testimony from folks who say "this is how *I* do it" rather than "this is how I would do it *if* I were to ever actually do it".

So...what is it that makes you think that teaching kids (or adults) to play a musical instrument is the ONE job that justifies a pre-paid long term contract?

[Todd S. Malicoate]

I guess the "problem" of the way I'm looking at it is my own level of self-esteem. If I were not able to teach students at least as well as can the average university studio teacher, I really wouldn't feel qualified to take on the job...not even with one student...not even with (in particular) one *beginner* student.

That's a very good point that I hadn't thought of until Bloke mentioned it.

I find that the younger the student, the more careful I have to be about what I say and how I say it. I think it is much more difficult to teach "beginners" and that the stakes are higher as well (in terms of their future success). With the high school and older crowd, it's really just keeping them on task and helping them learn how to make progress on their own.

I've had students as young as 5th and 6th grade and find they are the most challenging (but also the most rewarding) to teach. My effort level has to be triple (at least) what it is for the older students, both pedagogically and motivationally. Unfortunately, in most cases it is the least experienced teachers (in the private studio setting, not necessarily the classroom) that take on these youngest students.

Just for the record, I take payment at each lesson before the lesson begins. In many cases the parent comes with the student to me and hands me a check or cash. If a student forgets occasionally, I'll carry it over to the next lesson...I'm not that much of a hard-***, really.

Todd S. "who feels old now that he is teaching the daughter of a fellow he marched with in college" Malicoate

[sloan]

So...what is it that makes you think that teaching kids (or adults) to play a musical instrument is the ONE job that justifies a pre-paid long term contract?

' seems obvious enough to me. Other formal schooling (including private studio music teaching purchased from universities) is paid for precisely on those terms.

That's how the STUDENT pays. It's not how the TEACHER is paid.

Still waiting for a freelance, experienced teacher to step up and explain their semester-by-semester payment policy.

I teach at a university. I'm paid by the month - AFTER the fact.

I pay for individual trombone and piano lessons for a college student. I pay in 2 payments per semester, in advance - but I think (I haven't asked) that the person providing the instruction gets a salary that does not increase nor decrease based on my payment, and that he is not paid IN ADVANCE.

[sloan]

Still waiting for a freelance, experienced teacher to step up and explain their semester-by-semester payment policy.

I already did this. All of my teaching, save for very recently, has been in my home, at a HS or at the homes of students. I am sorry if I was not clear enough. Or did you mean unemployed as a player by the term Freelance? I might be the one who is not getting it here. If so, sorry…

I read your posting to say that you collected the money lesson-by-lesson. You said that your 3rd rule was "bring the money with you". That didn't sound like a semester's worth of money in advance, to me. Sorry that I mis-understood you.

So...how much do you collect at the start of every semester? How many hours does that pay for?