Best Tuba For Middle & High School Band???

[Rick Denney]

In all fairness, the equiptment is never free of charge. It's either payed for by the taxes the parents pay, or in the case of many schools including my High School, you have to pay a fee every year or summer that you use a horn. And if the students had to buy their own instruments, music education as we know it would pretty much cease to exist.

I'm not sure that what passes for music education in those places where school instruments are gleefully battered into oblivion is really worth that much. (I'm sure I'll take a beating for that statement).

School instruments should be durable, simple, and cheap. And the students who play them should be grateful for the privelege of doing so.

But my reason for responding is that there is a difference between "free of charge" and "free". It's free of charge to the student (and $40 a semester is small enough change to be nominally free, in my view), but not free to those who pay for it. Society at large picks up that tab, and it seems to me that in too many places they get too little for their investment.

Rick "thinking music should be a noble pursuit but is treated like a sports program by too many band directors--hence filling their program with jock-types" Denney

[hurricane_harry]

and lets face it, yea alot of high school players should be using a garbage can with a hole drilled for a mouthpiece, but there should always be a working quality horn locked up somewhere.

Oh my. That strikes a nerve with me. Why does any high school student feel the entitlement to have quality equipment in their hands, provided free of charge? My encouragement: WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!! Having any equipment to use, free of charge, should be seen for the blessing that it is and not taken for granted. If you feel the need to have better equipment than that provided to you at no cost, GO OUT AND BUY YOUR OWN!!!

End of rant.

im paying $1700 dollars this year alone with my band account, no doubt im gratefull that now my valves move freely (somewhat), but i think there should be at least one horn that doesn't sound like a dieing elephant

[Dan Schultz]

Goodness, guys! All I really wanted to know was your opinions on what tubas to buy for a middle/high school band. So far, all I've seen is favorable opinions for Jupiter and/or Yamaha tubas. Want to start over?

[Jay Bertolet]

im paying $1700 dollars this year alone with my band account, no doubt im gratefull that now my valves move freely (somewhat), but i think there should be at least one horn that doesn't sound like a dieing elephant

Harry! I'm not at all sure what your "band account" entails, nor how such an account is handled, but you should know that for about twice what you're paying this year to your band account, you could own your very own tuba. And I'm not talking junk here, you could find several good new tubas for that price and, depending on the key and the frills desired, you could also find some professional quality used tubas for that price. Then you could sound as good as you like, your valves would always work, and you can stick some other kid with that "dieing elephant" tuba which is so obviously holding you back. Imagine the nerve of the public school system trying to stick you with that tuba!

[dopey]

as far as paying for school instruments, we dont' have to here.

I find it funny at times hearing people gripe about why they sound like they do on a particular tuba. We currently have 4 tubas and only 3 highschool concert tubas (cerveny's). The director recently ordered the 4th which i'll have the honor of playing when it arrives. However until then I have chose to not play one of the other's tuba and make a lower chair play a jr high tuba, but I play the jr high tuba.

Let me tell ya this is the example of what a jr high horn is. The leadpipe doesn't like to stay on, there is a piece of ductape on the bottom bow, the finish is gone.. the bell has actually been bent over completely once (instrument cart fell on it.. strap broke on truck).. anyway.. Bottom line this 3 valve tuba which looks quite awful actually puts out a very nice sound. Which is also in tune.

If i'd of let the lower chair tuba play it he would use the horn as an excuse as to why his tone is what it is. Which is why I chose to play it, to prevent whining and excuses..

Jacob"Who feels 90% of the time its the player not the horn"Morgan

[Chuck(G)]

Goodness, guys! All I really wanted to know was your opinions on what tubas to buy for a middle/high school band. So far, all I've seen is favorable opinions for Jupiter and/or Yamaha tubas. Want to start over?

So why not the Glassls, Dan?

[Daryl Fletcher]

So why not the Glassls, Dan?

I would be interested in a Glassl tuba, probably not for my main horn, but for situations where having something lightweight and durable would be beneficial. I've written emails to the company, and they have been very kind in their responses. If I had the extra money and if not for the fact that the dollar is exchanging so poorly against the Euro these days, I would probably consider one.

I started out on a Conn 36K fiberglass sousaphone. As strange as some people might think this comment is, I wonder if their value is underestimated for school use, although at the time I didn't think it was all that great. Maybe it's because we look at things differently when we get older.

My school sousaphone had been abused before I got there (and I was there in the 80's). The lower branch, the last brass part before it joins the fiberglass, had holes in it and was covered up with electrical tape. We got it replaced, and needless to say, it played like a whole different instrument after that.

[Dan Schultz]

Goodness, guys! All I really wanted to know was your opinions on what tubas to buy for a middle/high school band. So far, all I've seen is favorable opinions for Jupiter and/or Yamaha tubas. Want to start over?

So why not the Glassls, Dan?

I guess I COULD paint this 36K standing in the corner of my shop black and pretend, huh? I worked on a project a couple of years ago to develop an automobile horn with a plastic case. The only plastic material we found that would come close to the properties of steel is a Celanese product called 'Fortran'. I would like to see a bell injection molded out of this stuff! I think it injects at around 550 degrees F.

[TubaRay]

Tubaboy, why must one resort to name-calling? It is one thing to disagree with another post. It is quite another to start calling names. I think, at least I hope, I speak for most TubeNetters when I say that I wish folks would refrain from the name-calling and simply state their case in refuting whatever it is they disagree with.

[Captain Sousie]

The days of presenting and arguing a point with only information and/or facts are effectively over. Haven't you seen the political forums in this country? It is now an accepted method of debate to insult and tear down an opponent when logic and reason alone do not effectively support an argument.

Therefore, you sir are an antiquated thingy. (Was that a good enough insult to help me win? )

Thank you,
Sousie (CPT)

[TubaRay]

"An antiquated thingy" is indeed what I am. You have nailed that. I'm afraid you have also nailed it when it comes to the preferred method of debate.

[Rick Denney]

you're an idiot

I'm looking forward to the opportunity that may someday come your way to repeat that conclusion to Jay's face. You might find it more difficult to say at that time than while hiding behind what you think is an anonymous nickname on this forum.

Of course, you are completely wrong. Jay wasn't saying that those who could not afford tubas should not be provided them by their schools. He was saying that those who cannot afford tubas and get the free use of them during school shouldn't complain about them, but instead should be grateful for their favorable treatment by the local taxpayers. And he was saying that those who could not tolerate playing the tubas provided for free still have no basis for complaint, but perhaps do have the basis for sufficient motivation to earn enough money to buy their own.

Rick "who did just fine playing a plastic King sousaphone for 5.5 of his 6 years in public school band programs" Denney

[Rick Denney]

"An antiquated thingy" is indeed what I am. You have nailed that. I'm afraid you have also nailed it when it comes to the preferred method of debate.

Fortunately, rapier wit is still enjoyable for the transmitter, even if the receiver is no longer able to be tuned to those frequencies.

And, by the way, is the antiquated thingy going to make it to the Army conference this year? Other antiquarians on this end hope so.

Rick "lamenting the demise of the politely spoken--and politely received--insult" Denney

[ThomasDodd]

"lamenting the demise of the politely spoken--and politely received--insult"

I always found those the harded hitting insults. I miss them, and I'm not antiquated (yet).

Nothing beats telling somone off with a smile on your face.
... Except the laugh you get when they ask what you just said.

[TubaRay]

Rick and Thomas: You have both stated good points concerning the manner/style of debate we encounter. And yes, Rick, it looks good for the "antiquated thingy" to be able to attend the Army conference. Perhaps you and he could discuss this sometime soon.

[Jay Bertolet]

Well, it wasn't the first time someone called me an idiot and I'm positive it won't be the last time. Such is life in the modern world, especially the mostly (or so they think) anonymous cyber world.

What can I tell you Doc, it's true. If you want to be a great player, just go get a shiny horn. This is all you need. Further, get someone else to pay for it. The world owes it to you anyway, right? Just ask any of the "smarter" posters in this forum. They definitely know better and have the answers. Stop being so antiquey.

It is truly amazing to me that so few of the real targets of my posts on this subject actually figured out the message. Perhaps a sad commentary on the state of music education, and perhaps all forms of education, in this country. How I long for the days when everyone understood:

The worlds owes me nothing.

I'm responsible for my lot in this world.

I can do anything if I truly work hard enough to accomplish it.

Life was so much simpler back then without so many other people to blame for your own problems. Now the difficulty is picking the right target, since pointing the finger of blame at one's self isn't even a real consideration. Ah, politics.

And Rick, thanks for the kind words and the insightful imaginary scenario, though I'm pretty sure that I'll never see Tubaboy in any of the circles I travel in during real life. For that to happen, he'd have to become a successful musician...

I think Bloke hit it exactly. Not one person has shown any argument that convinces me that just about any of these so-called junker horns couldn't be made to sound just fine in the hands of someone with skills. It is so easy to blame the hammer. Let's put it another way:

In golf they make two types of clubs, the type that have a very large "sweet spot" and the type that have a smaller, much more effective one. Pro golfers use the latter, often referred to as "tour grind" clubs. If you can't hit the ball with the more forgiving club, how will you fare with the really good ones?

You want better tools? Why not go out and earn them and in the process, be sure you learn what to do with them and whether or not you truly need them.

Just Practice.

[Chuck(G)]

Just returned from visiting a high-school student (single-parent family, definitely not rolling in dough). He was so proud of his find--a King 2280 euph he found in a second-hand furniture store. It set him back all of $130 and included a case. The lacquer's pretty worn and the 3rd valve tuning trigger's missing (no great loss IMOHO) and the bell's not quite straight. No serious dents and the valves were in pretty good condition. He needed some new felts and corks, so I dropped over and installed some for him.

It's possible to find decent instruments with a bit of determination--he proved that. (Yes, the school provided him with a 3-valve compensating Besson from the 60's, but this was HIS).

[dopey]

Now who here plays on something worse then this?
http://tinypic.com/la4bn
http://tinypic.com/la4d2
http://tinypic.com/la5o0
yes I play on that, and no it doesnt' sound like a garbage can. this is temp, but really its not a bad tuba.. and yes thats duct tape on the bottom..
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[David Zerkel]

Anyone who could call Jay Bertolet, one of the most intelligent and articulate musicians that I know, an idiot loses all credibility.

God, I miss the old Tubenet.

[dopey]

I dont' know about anyone else but to a certain point I really like the sound this horn puts out. I mean i'd be all means prefer to have a newer horn. But the reaction of people who see the horn then hear me play is quite nice. i've had many people walk up quite shocked that a horn that looks like that can/does sound like it does.

Like i said before the only real complaint is I have to hold the leadpipe to have reassurance it doesnt' come off while I play.. I think this can be fixed pretty easily but besides that it plays in tune and valves dont' stick.. what else can you ask for?

I think it just proves the point its not always the horn's fault. I remember in 8th grade playing on this same horn and blaming my crappy horn as to why I didnt' make regions..

Jacob"who wanted to take this horn to the all region clinic and see the look on peoples face's when the 1st chair tuba pulled that horn out;)"