Blowing consistently sharp

[dtemp]

This is a problem that I've been struggling with for a while. Here are the facts.

- The horn in question is a B & S PT10 F tuba.
- This is my first F tuba.
- I've noticed that the fundamental pitches are blowing sharp (about 10 - 20 cents)
- The mouthpieces I've been using (PT-65, PT-30, Kelly 24AW) seem to offer no help.
- Although I have to pull out a bit on CC, I can keep it in tune and have a good chunk of slide left over.

The questions:

- Is there a mouthpiece that might help (event though the 24AW is pretty deep)?
- Might this have something to do with my particular horn?
- Are there any tips / tricks that might help me out?

Of course I will bring this up with my lessons teacher on Monday, but I thought someone on this board might have had a similar problem.

Thanks in advance. Go 'Hawks.

[smurphius]

I am learning F tuba currently, and find the same problem to be true. In fact, that slide on my CC was cut by the previous owner, and I still play with the slide all the way in. By contrast, I have to drag out the tuning slide on the F almost 2 inches. (I play a CC MW 2145 and an F MW 45.) I think it's just something we as beginners are faced with in the adjustment from CC to F.

Then again, if when the tuba were first invented, we didn't have all these different looking, shaped instruments come about, maybe we'd have a couple of standard looking instruments that acted the same.

Of course, that's why we play the tuba right? The uniqueness.

[smurphius]

Bloke, if I could ask of your wisdom here...

At one point, I was playing on a Perantucci PT-4P tuba and had to pull the slide out quite a bit on this instrument. I had a masterclass one time with a tuba professors from one of the universities nearby. He felt there was no way that I should possibly need to have the slide pulled out that far. He had me pull in the slide and begin playing with a tuner and working to pull the sound down. Through a few months work, and a new horn, I now play almost on the under side of pitches on CC tuba. I suppose this procedure helped with my abilities to center pitch, and even to an extent clear up my sound.

I guess the question I have (and possibly the same for the original poster) is whether or not there is a difference between this case and the case with F tuba being sharp? I don't feel that my tone is really suffering at all. The only major concern I have is my range being somewhat low.

It's amazing how different contrabass and bass tuba is.

Thanks.

[windshieldbug]

I have a note that I wrote down from Miraphone: "The standard tuning of our instruments lies at 443 Hertz, which is standard for Europe. We also make instruments tuned to 440 Hertz for the United States."

European horn?

[Art Hovey]

Different people play in different ways. If the tuba is way sharp when YOU play it then YOU need to lengthen it somehow. Some years ago I had a tuba that was a bit sharp for me, and I was using a 3-piece Doug Elliot mouthpiece. I had Doug make me a shank that was an inch longer than standard, and always used it with that tuba. Problem solved!

[Allen]

Bloke's advice about having good players judge the tuba's pitch is good.

There is another thing you can try: Get your tuner set up, but don't look at it yet. Play an open-fingered note in the mid range. Bend the pitch up and down, until you find the tuba's resonant center for that note. Now, look at the tuner. Repeat for a few other open notes.

I find this to ba a moderately decent test of a tuba's tuning, although judging that resonant center can be subjective. It is also useful when initially setting up a tuba. You can do these same tests using the valves, to initially set up the valve slides.

If you can't get the resonant pitch centers of the notes where you want them (and your experts agree) you will have to either work very hard to play in tune or make a change in the tuba. Possibilities include different mouthpieces, but the definitive change is usually to make the tuba longer: get a longer main tuning slide, add a tuning bit, etc.

I had a sharp tuba problem. After struggling for a while, I got systematic, and with the testing I described above determined that the tuba was a fine, in-tune A=443 horn. I got a longer main tuning slide. Problem solved. What would I do differently if I had this problem again? Get systematic right away, bypassing the struggling phase!

[dtemp]

Suppose that it is the horn...

Other than the previous problem, I really like the way it plays. How difficult would it be to get a longer tuning slide? Where could I get one? Would a larger shank mouthpiece lower the pitch enough to make a difference?

[UDELBR]

doesn't buy the 'blowing it sharp' rap offered by others very easily

Dunno; whenever I've gone to factories (M/W, Nirschl, Mirafone) to pick out new instruments, they always end up cutting out c. 7cm from the main slide of whichever instrument I pick. It seems I play consistently flat.

[Alex Reeder]

I had a similar problem with a PT6 I recently bought. I was having trouble getting a good read on the intonation characteristics of the horn, and it seemed the intonation was different each time I played it. I experimented with a few things to figure out what affected the pitch.

It seems some tubas are more sensitive to certain things than others- one thing that significantly affected the pitch for me with this tuba (and not so much on other tubas I have played) was the angle and placement of the mouthpiece on my lips. You can also experiment with different kinds of air support, the open-ness of your throat, or even different mouthpieces (especially bowl vs. cup shape).

When you get a bit of a feel for how (or if) these things affect the pitch, there was some great advice earlier from Allen to find where the pitch really lies on the tuba:

There is another thing you can try: Get your tuner set up, but don't look at it yet. Play an open-fingered note in the mid range. Bend the pitch up and down, until you find the tuba's resonant center for that note. Now, look at the tuner. Repeat for a few other open notes.

Experiment, have an open mind, and plenty of patience.

[windshieldbug]

You're bringing up Miraphone...The original post was about a very sharp B&S tuba...so here is more info about my own (albeit c. 1983) B&S F tuba

Sorry, I didn't know any better (worse), so I thought it could be a reason. Actually, my MiraFone 184-4U plays so sharp that I need to use the tuning slide WAY out, too (although not with any of my other horns... )

A couple of different ways to deal with this.

1. Have a new tuning slide made. This will certainly help, but it may not help with each individual valve slide.

2. Have a new leadpipe made for this horn.

3. Keep trying mouthpieces until you find something that works.

I would think adding some length to the tuning slide would do the trick if you like the way the horn sounds. Any decent tech should be able straight pieces to it to make up the difference. Changing the leadpipe may well change the way the horn plays. Having a mouthpiece made will cost, plus, once done, you won't be able to change it (easily).