Any tips to unstick valves that catch on the casing?

Water Music · Post by **Water Music** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:49 pm

I've tried cleaning my whole horn, I've tried Hetman's oil, and nothing seems to unstick my valves from catching on the casing. Before I call Baltimore Brass about this, any tips?

djwesp · Post by **djwesp** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:03 pm

if it is a besson 983 message me.

Albertibass · Post by **Albertibass** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:09 pm

first clean the valve casing and valve. then if there is still a problem, check for dents in the casing or valve. then i guess if there isnt anything there..you need help.

Water Music · Post by **Water Music** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:20 pm

No dents in both and it's a MW 2145.

I just don't want to have to drive all that way to BB to get this problem that should've never been fixed. It could be the valve stems. They may be crooked.

phoenix · Post by **phoenix** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:13 pm

a similar problem happened to the 1st and 2nd valves of my Mira 1291. The stems weren't bent and there were no dents in the casings. Apparently, the casings were put under some kind of pressure at some point, which "warped" the casing ever so slightly (i guess that could be considered a dent). I took it to Dillon's and Matt lapped the valves and all was good. Good luck!

-Brett

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:30 pm

There are several things that can cause pistons to bind. There is almost not way to diagnose and treat this type of problem over the internet. Lapping is quite a ways down on the list of corrective actions.

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:55 pm

I canâ€™t find the thread on the old TubeNet, but Joe S outed, that some of the breaking in period of piston brasses was about the inner surface of the piston casings getting corroded just so much, that that the thin layer of corrosion helped tightening the valves, where the ever so tiny factory tolerances had left too much open space.

I agree with Joe in this observation. This may have implications in situations like yours.

The said layer of corrosion is porous, which doesnâ€™t diminish its tightening effect, as it the profile which counts in that matter.

If you have cleaned your valves very efficiently, you will have removed the deposits of oil held in the layer of corrosion. This deposit has to be filled with oil again, before there will be oil enough to form the emulsion layer of spit and oil, which will make your pistons run fast again.

Oil generously with a thin oil. My favourite, aside from its horrible stink, is Blue Juice.

Some makers, I seem to recall Besson and Yamaha, make the ends of their pistons pear shaped to reduce the area of the bearing surface. (I own a lot of makes, but no MWâ€™s, so I canâ€™t tell about their piston shapes).

With new instruments from Besson and Yamaha it may take a firm grip to get the pistons down into their casings after wiping the pistons.

Make sure that the piston guide is placed exactly in line with its ridge. And make sure, that you move the piston truly along the axis of the piston casing.

This problem isnâ€™t a privilege of new instruments only. The frame of my 1870 Besson 3+1 Eb has been slightly skewed over the years (and I am not the first owner). The 4th piston is a bit tough to get down into its casing, but when it is down there, it runs fine, after JoeS sold me some replacement springs for the original ones.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

Art Hovey · Post by **Art Hovey** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:58 pm

Take a close look at your valve tubing and braces. Sometimes a brace can come un-soldered, allowing the tubing to move a bit, which distorts the valve cylinder a bit, causing it to bind. If any of the valve tubing is bent out of line after taking a hit that can do it too. One clue is if you push & pull on the valve tubing when the valve is stuck down and it suddenly pops up by itself.

porkchopsisgood · Post by **porkchopsisgood** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:29 am

Hey man....

I guess you got the Hetmann's.....sorry it's not helping.

If you're going to clean the valves, it might be time to try cleaning the entire horn--being a new horn, you could have a good amount of residue that is in the horn itself and causing some of the binding.

The problem is that is difficult to clean a horn properly in the winter: the easiest way I've found to clean out the inside of a horn is to have it outside and run warm (never hot) water through the horn. You might be able to do this in the tub.....but be extremely careful: the horn will get heavy with the added weight of the water.

Take out all of the slides , take the backplates off of the casings, and take out the valves (of course). Use some sort of hose if possible and get everything....EVERYTHING....

Barring this and a trip to Baltimore you could call Bret Gustafson in town. He's pretty incredible.

Good luck! and work on the Bordogni!

DCottrell · Post by **DCottrell** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:24 am

Meinl Westons have had issues in the past with burrs in the valve guide channel. Matt Walters was going to have a tool made..., but short of driving to Woodbridge, give me a PM, I have made one for myself and used it on my 2155. I am about 45 min from downtown Philly and 15 min west of Newark DE.

Water Music · Post by **Water Music** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:47 am

Haha, I will work on my Bordogni's. The Hetman's is now seeming to work after putting it on for the past 3 days, on all of the valves except the 2nd. It's the only one that sticks and it is driving me insane. I'll give it a bath tomorrow, and if that doesn't work, I might try Bret Gustafson.