Is this a Conn 8Xj???

[trseaman]

I love the copper plating inside the bell! As shiny as it is, and after reading the prior posts, I'm wondering if it is a special order, and not just a gold plate that didn't get the final gold. Very, very striking, and probably unique. I wonder if it also darkened the tone somewhat? If it weren't such an early example, I would wonder if someone got it into the coprion tank! I must consider that if I ever get a recording bell tuba. Beautiful!

It had acquired a bunch of finger prints from the past few days of checking it out and the only thing that would clean the bell in my house was the copper cleaner used to clean the bottom of our pots & pans... Does gold act the same way???

Tim

[windshieldbug]

Does gold act the same way???

No. Gold is usually plated OVER silver plate, and cooper cleaner would likely go right through it. With gold, you want to be very, very gentle.

[Donn]

Gold will stay pretty bright, copper will darken. I personally don't think it makes sense as a finish - you need either lacquer, or another metal (gold, silver) that doesn't oxidize so easily. But the darkening copper might make an interesting contrast with the bright silver plate, sort of an earth/sky thing, if your sense of esthetics tends towards the theatrical.

[cjk]

my guess is that whoever refurbed the bell had the inside done with copper because he was too cheap to have it done in gold.



Doesn't brass get a strike coat of copper before being plated with silver anyhow???

[trseaman]

The wrap of the tubing indicates to me that you have an 8X-J. I have many pictures and if I could access the pictures, I bet I would find a "mate" to yours

Just wanted to clarify, do you actually have an 82J or just have pictures of one??? If you own one, I wanted to ask what mouthpiece you use with your horn? I've only played in my living room and wonder if it will have a big sound in a larger room or auditorium.

I also wanted to add that there is some evidence that the lead pipe has been repaired or removed. This may be where the original model number was stamped...

Tim

[Alex C]

I do own a 1929 Conn CC but it's not an 8X-J. I couldn't find the model of my tuba and searched everywhere to figure it out. Mine turned out to be one of the first Conn Donatelli models.

I only have pictures of 8X-J tubas but I would suggest a Helleberg 7B or a Conn 2 (old funnel-looking blank) as a starting point.

[trseaman]

A couple days ago after giving the Conn a bath I noticed a couple loose braces and a crack going around a tube on the rear of the horn... So, I took the horn to Robb Stewart on Friday and he'll give it a good check up and fix the crack. He noticed that the main tuning slide had been shortened, maybe to compensate for the horn being flat and agreed since it still plays a little flat...

I only have pictures of 8X-J tubas

Once your computer gets to feeling better, please share your pics so we can all see!!!

Tim

[windshieldbug]

the main tuning slide had been shortened, maybe to compensate for the horn being flat and agreed since it still plays a little flat...

Early 20th century low-pitch Conn horns were often built to A=435 (as was my 1907 double-bell baritone)

[trseaman]

Here we go again...

I picked up the horn from Robb Stewart this past week and the horn's feeling much better now! Here's a pic of the patch he did over the crack. Very nice! It was a crack that went about half-way around the tube! Was it brittle or inferior metal from 80 years ago?? Who knows!

Robb said that the bell flare is all copper and that it is not original! (:shock: Didn't see that coming!) There are some subtle clues that confirm his theory.

1. The back-side of the bell has rings or lines that are somewhat sub-standard for what Conn would have produced. If you look closely you can see the lines in the pics below.
2. In the reflection on the face of the bell, you can faintly see straight lines and curved lines. In Robbs opinion, the straight lines are from the wooden blocks that were glued together to make the mold for the bell. The curved lines are from the grain of the wood. Conn's tooling probably would have been made from Steel and wouldn't have produced these lines. My question is did Conn spin the bells or were they hydraulically formed?
3. Inside the curve of the bell there is evidence of a gold wash and in the 1934 brochure a gold-washed bell was an option.

Seeing the horn in person and viewing the engraving makes you wonder why someone would invest this much time & effort into restoring a horn.





A couple days ago I received an email from Christine at The Conn Loyalist webpage. She sent a copy of a page from a 1926 catalog that describes the 8X-J series of tubas.

My horn doesn't resemble the one pictured above and this only creates more questions than answers. Conn documentation was/is so confusing! Even the specifications don't match, here's the specs for my horn:

Weight: 20lbs
Length: 41 1/2"
Body Width: 15" (16 1/2" including MP receiver)
Bell: 19 3/4" (although not original)

So... The mystery continues with this old horn! It has grown on me over the past few weeks but I still don't think it will create the sound I need for our large band. I'll play the horn tomorrow night for its debut performance and after that I'll start looking for a potential buyer... Anyone interested???

Tim

[UDELBR]

I do own a 1929 Conn CC but it's not an 8X-J. I couldn't find the model of my tuba and searched everywhere to figure it out. Mine turned out to be one of the first Conn Donatelli models.

Any chance o' you posting pix of that?

Please?

[Lew]

Conn spun their bells. The rest of the tubing was hydraulically formed.

[Paul Scott]

I think I've seen pictures of this model used in some of the old dance bands of the '20s-the bell in particular is distinctive. Look for old photos of the Ted Fiorito Orchestra and you may see the same model Conn. As to the model # I have no idea. I love old horns but I've never been able to remember all of those Conn ID numbers!

[Alex C]

Mine turned out to be one of the first Conn Donatelli models.

Any chance o' you posting pix of that?

Please?

I have been told by the computer tech that some data (I don't know which) from my computer was too corrupted to save. The rest is loaded on discs for me to pick up as soon as I can.

I'll post pictures as soon as I can sort through the contects of the discs I have. It's in no particular order.

Anybody understand the motivation of people who create viruses? If you have the ability to write a program as thorough as the program that ate it's way through my computer, why not write a productive program and make money? What's the point of viruses? (viri?)

[Donn]

Anybody understand the motivation of people who create viruses? If you have the ability to write a program as thorough as the program that ate it's way through my computer, why not write a productive program and make money? What's the point of viruses? (viri?)

In the usual case, they're not genius programmers who could make money writing productive programs. The purpose - if you try to look at it from their point of view, whatever purpose vandalism has ever had.

If you're looking for a purpose in the larger scheme of things - what's the point of a real virus? If anything, I guess it weeds out the weak individuals, species, etc. Like if a computer software company gets too large, too enmeshed in legacies of its own old, misdesigned systems, too eager to provide new features that may not have been very well thought out, then viruses may provide some of the inertial upset that gives its competitors a chance at the market. But of course, the virus doesn't intend to do this.

Sorry about the files, that sucks!

[windshieldbug]

Serial #: 217425
Year Key Valve
1924 BBb 4 Piston

[trseaman]

I've been emailing back & forth with HeliconMan about his 80J and he kindly emailed a photo of his horn. It's a beauty with a gorgeous gold washed bell... For me, this is the final proof that my horn is not an 8xJ series horn. The 80J is larger and the run of the tubing is similar but not the same as mine.


So... Now we see In the previous post that HeliconMan has found a similar horn! How about a side-by-side comparison???

Remember that my main tuning slide has been cut but the same branch on the brass horn appears to take a little different course than mine... To me, that looks to be the only difference between the two horns. I'm going to call The Tuba Exchange on Tuesday and we'll see what else they can tell me! I'm guessing that dimensions will be the confirming factor. It doesn't look like they have a model number either...

The mystery continues...

Thanks Paul for your help!

[trseaman]

Hello all,

Okay, so my horn is now for sale on Ebay, but... I got an email from a fellow tuba player and he emailed pics of his horn. His is a CC and it's a bit of a frankentuba! He says the horn has been modified and that the original run of his tubing was identical to mine, pre-modifications. His horn is a little older than mine and is not marked with a model number and It's also a little larger:

His Body Height: 29in
Mine: 27 1/2in

His Body Width (not including the bell branch): 11in
Mine: 9 1/2in

So, because of the age and the basic design, could this be a cousin to my horn? Would there be a slight difference in size because of the key? (CC vs Bb) It looks to me like it's missing some branches but is that a "CC" thing?

The Conn Loyalist Webpage suggest that it should be an 84J, if you use her recognition guide. But it doesn't match that horn exactly either... Another fine example of Conn documentation & record keeping???

Any thoughts???

[trseaman]

Another question about bore size...

I have searched the archives and I think that measuring the ID of the 2nd valve tuning slide is what I found the most. As you may know, this horn is for sale on Ebay and someone just emailed and suggested to pull any valve and measure a hole to get the correct bore size.

What is the absolute correct way to measure the bore???

Thanks, Tim

[windshieldbug]

I suspect that either way will work in this instance unless your horn has been heavily modified. The difference in method is because some more recent horns have a "dual bore", where, for example, the fourth or fifth or fourth AND fifth valves have a bigger bore.

The second valve would be accurate, as would, I think in your case, any valve. Bumping up the bore later in the horn becomes more popular as time goes on.

[Lew]

My understanding of the most common way to measure bore is the inner diameter of the second valve slide.