"100th anniversary of the end of the use of a tuba"

Steve Marcus · Post by **Steve Marcus** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:35 am

From All About Jazz:

[quote]Stingy Brim
Johnnie Valentino

By Michael P. Gladstone

Guitarist/composer Johnnie Valentino beings his South Philly musical background spliced in with a N'awlins turn-of-the-century ambiance on this ambitious guitar-organ-sax album with a few asterisks attached. The inspiration was the 100th anniversary of the end of the use of a tuba, which became phased out by acoustic bass. In order to restore the music to the instrumentation of 1906, Valentino brings the urgency of today's rhythms and compositions into an ensemble that consists of clarinet/tenor sax, guitar/mandolin, tuba and harmonium (taking the place of the accordion), drums and percussion.

So how does this concept work in reality? This really isn't an organ-centered album, although Mick Rossi is featured on several numbers, These pieces (ten by Valentino, two co-written) begin in a late-night, half-tempo kind of after hours club genre with Bob Sheppard making the strongest appearances. Valentino has a metallic and just-this-side-of-John Scofield edgy quality to his playing which also makes me consider Kurt Rosenwinkel as an influence.

â€

Daryl Fletcher · Post by **Daryl Fletcher** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:51 am

dwaskew · Post by **dwaskew** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:58 am

here's another review, with a bit more explanation, perhaps....

Stingy Brim
Johnnie Valentino | OmniTone
By Dan McClenaghan

It takes a bit of nerve and some swagger, one would guess, to wear a Stingy Brim hat, one of those straw bowler types with a very limited brim overhang. But guitarist Johnnie Valentine does exactly that.

It also takes a bit a nerve to bring the tuba into a jazz ensemble these days. Back in the early years of jazz, the tuba and the string bass fought it out for control of the music's bottom end, and the string bass won. But the tuba refuses to fade away. The late Lester Bowie used that beefy, if relatively unsupple, brass throb marvelously in his Brass Fantasy ensemble. Bowie had the swagger; but then so does Valentino.

Funky, with a New Orleans vibe, Stingy Brim has a touch of humor (the tuba seems to encourage whismy in the collective sound), but this set is a lot more than a good time roll. A good deal of depth, edginess and a perversely modern lean--given the inclusion of harmonium, clarinet and tuba--inserts itself into this set of ten Valentino originals (two tunes are co-written with keyboardist Mick Rossi). Listen to the dark-toned â€œ4AM,â€

dwaskew · Post by **dwaskew** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:00 am

and another.............

Stingy Brim
Johnnie Valentino | OmniTone
By Mark F. Turner

Appearances can be deceiving. After glancing at the front cover of Stingy Brim and reading some of the information in the package, you may think this is just a typical organ/guitar combo. But what becomes apparent when you listen is that this is some very modern jazz--unique compositions and great sounding music. Johnny Valentino, a Los Angeles-based guitarist, composer and sound designer, commemorates what he states as the â€œ100 anniversary of the tubaâ€™s demise as the keeper of the bass line in jazz.â€

dwaskew · Post by **dwaskew** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:02 am

and one more--

this one from the Johnnie valentino website, where he suggests "righting the wrong" regarding tubas....

Johnnie Valentino:
Stingy Brim
(OmniTone 15212)

[Click artist name to see discography]
Mark Ferber, drums, percussion Â· Randy Jones, tuba Â· Mick Rossi, Hammond B3 organ, harmonium, percussion Â· Bob Sheppard, clarinet, tenor saxophone Â· Johnnie Valentino, guitar, mandolin

Stingy Brim Â· Dog Eggs Â· Oyster Bay Â· 4M-Squared Â· Return Â· Stone Balloons Â· Where, When and How Â· Coyote Cowboy Â· Off Balance Â· All Monk's Children

Commemorating the 100th anniversary of the tuba's demise as keeper of the bass line in jazz, composer/guitarist Johnnie Valentino rights the wrong with this unchained, funky, toe-tapping tuba-organ quintet, fully of catchy, irresibly grooving tunes.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:15 am

Daryl Fletcher wrote: I'm confused. Apparently some of us didn't get the memo.

Look under your seat.

The one with the memo gets to take the centerpiece home.

Teubonium · Post by **Teubonium** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:00 pm

At all the trad jazz festivals I've been to, groups using tubas outnumber those using string bass by about 10 to 1.

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:03 pm

It has not been 100 years. This is very premature. In traditional jazz, the tuba was the ONLY bass instrument used until 1929 when the electronic microphone became standard equipment in all the recording studios. After this, most popular bands dropped their tuba players through about 1934.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:37 pm

Bah... humbug

I MIGHT be able to relinquish the folder to a REAL upright bass player but what I see more of is a moron with a $100 bass guitar trying to hack his way through Dixieland music. ANY instrument that needs an amplifier should be outlawed! As Bloke would say ... I HAS SPOKEN

Our set player has even started leaving his bass drum at home. Ya just don't need if for Dixieland you have a decent tuba player. (Did I imply that I am a decent tuba player? naw....

)

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:52 pm

TubaTinker wrote:Ya just don't need if for Dixieland you have a decent tuba player. (Did I imply that I am a decent tuba player? naw.... )

Maybe you just implied that you guys don't play much Dixieland..

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:52 pm

Many tuba players drank themselves to death after the great tuba pullout of the 1930s. It was very similar to the Stock Market Crash in 1929, except that it didn't happen all at once. Some tuba players were also great bass players, such as Country Washburn, who was one of the tuba players who worked for Spike Jones.

I still don't see where they got 100 years!

BopEuph · Post by **BopEuph** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:57 pm

From what I understood, the bass was always the original instrument of jazz. The tuba was used for recordings because the string bass wasn't loud enought to be picked up. That's how it came to be in jazz.

Nick

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 2:02 pm

That comment didn't come from a tuba player.

prototypedenNIS · Post by **prototypedenNIS** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:49 am

yeah... Miles Davis Birth of the Cool

well, it wasn't a groundbreaking genre defining album....

wait a minute... it was!

tubatooter1940 · Post by **tubatooter1940** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:59 am

I would like to see tuba players climb back into the cat bird seat in jazz or anything else but having gigged on string bass and bass guitar as well as tuba, I find the tuba guy can prevail if he out works the string players by a large margin.
The amount of physical effort to play tuba is more than plunking strings and moving fingers. Fine! Given that a tuba requires more omph per oomp, what do we get for our effort? A tuba can punch out a bassline with the best of them but it is also a horn and can play shots with and solo like
any good horn with more passion than somebody's wooden box.
I believe tuba is resurging in popularity despite the fact that electric bass is sooo easy to play. This is happening due to the number of good young tuba tooters happily willing to work their butts off to please a crowd.
Stay at it, guys, good things are happening.

tubajoe · Post by **tubajoe** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:33 pm

Someone ought to commemorate (I wont say celebrate) the END of jazz looking forward -- and the start of it turning itself into "historical reproduction theatre" (damn, where's my straw hat??)
It has to be at least 25-30 years now...

...sheesh...

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:43 pm

As in historical reenactment? It's like watching the news on TV with actors to portray the stories that are being told.

Gongadin · Post by **Gongadin** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:40 pm

LoyalTubist wrote:Some tuba players were also great bass players, such as Country Washburn, who was one of the tuba players who worked for Spike Jones.

Same with Roger Donley, who also worked for Spike. Same for John Kirby, who didn't work for Spike, but....well, he needs no introduction.

Gongadin · Post by **Gongadin** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:45 pm

dwaskew wrote:and another.............

Stingy Brim
Johnnie Valentino | OmniTone
By Mark F. Turner

Appearances can be deceiving. After glancing at the front cover of Stingy Brim and reading some of the information in the package, you may think this is just a typical organ/guitar combo.

I'm willing to wager that these reviewers barely even gave the recording a listen. I can tell they definitely didn't do any research on the history of tuba in jazz! I'll bet that they did a quick Google Search for tuba and jazz and found something about Lester Bowie and grabbed a bit of that info, and some other tidbits they found, and cobbled together a shoddy review. Trying to sound knowledgable, but failing miserably in the process to anyone who actually knows about the topic.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:54 pm

bloke wrote:How many tubas are sold in the U.S. each year...as opposed to electric basses?

...or upright acoustic basses, for that matter?

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