Octaves in Band Tuba Parts

[Chuck(G)]

(minor seconds are good too, especially if you lip the top note down so they're actually a quarter-step or less ... )

I think that's what most concert bands refer to as "tuning"...

[tubeast]

Our conductor in symphonic band has this thing about tubas (his "Overtone factory" he calls the seven of us referring to the "chimneys" pointing up).
Most of the time we´re called to produce three octaves.
We´re fortunate to have a strong BBb player who´ll play in the 0-octave nimbly enough.
I rather see myself doing the "normal" bottom part, though.

In our traditional band music there ALWAYS are two tubas in octaves. At points they´ll go up (and slightly beyond) the Bb on the staff.
These are clearly intended for BBb and F tuba teaming up, as the F will close a gap to the tenor voices, and most of the time the Baritons and Tenorhorns won´t have the Oomp-tuba bass lines.

[LoyalTubist]

The last Army band I played with, the 19th Army Band at Fort Dix, New Jersey, had an interesting partnership with St. Paul's College in Jersey City. Since that school didn't have an instrumental music program, we were the band for graduation and a convocation at the beginning of the school year.

Most of the school spirit music was arranged by the school's one music professor, who never arranged for band, but said he did a lot of orchestra arranging--a situation where each wind player had his own part.

Consequently, with three tuba players in the band, each of us had our own individual part, with no octaves to contend with. And I mean, not just individual, but also independent. I think it was their alma mater--we had a three part canon in the tuba section.

Interesting.

[Kenton]

Part of the confusion comes from the fact that the writer didn't make his/her intentions clear.

Sometimes the octaves may be to accomodate range difficulties, i.e. assuming that someone may be playing a 3v Eb., or that some players don't have the lip for high range.

But, previously alluded to but not expressly stated, there are times when the effect of basses in octaves is precisely the sound the writer is striving for. And, it can't be duplicated by letting the bass trombone play the upper octave.

Its not enough to have the range covered. Tone color is just as important consideration.

Better notation would help, such as comentary, or cue notes to indicate a less desired part.

Oh, and I do have to defend the string bass player. Their music is written transposed an octave, otherwise they would be practically all ledger lines. You don't ask the alto sax player to play their music written concert do you?

[Chuck(G)]

Part of the confusion comes from the fact that the writer didn't make his/her intentions clear.

There it is, the entire thread, in a nutshell! A few little letters (opt. or ossia or si piacere, whatever) instantly indicates the intent--and is almost never provided.

Often, a part played an octave up as indicated can add a certain brilliance otherwise lacking in a bass line.

But my experience indicates that most composers (and band directors) really have no desire to learn more than absolutely necessary about tubas.

You don't ask the alto sax player to play their music written concert do you?

Generally I don't ask alto players to play at all. It just encourages them.

I've got a similar quibble about composers who notate a part with "solo" when they really mean "one".

[TubaRay]

For us, octave divisis are always biased strongly in favor of the lower part. In San Antonio, our section of four might include one on the top part, which would either be Ray on his C tuba or me on F tuba. Usually it was me, because the upper part was least important, and Ray was the strongest player.

Actually, Rick, I rarely played the upper part. I chose, and still do, to play the lower part mostly because it forces me to work harder. Since I hardly ever have sufficient practice time, I "practice" a great deal right in the middle of band rehearsals. I know. I know. Some are getting the matches out right now in preparation for lots of flames. It really is possible to practice during rehearsals. Of course, if the music is actually challenging it becomes more difficult to put oneself through various paces. Since much of the music is not difficult, it lends itself to a variety of practice techniques which are entirely possible while maintaining musical integrity. Also, when the section is solid(as the section Rick referred to was), the principal player can do many things to help bring out the music which are much more difficult to achieve if he has to carry all the load. Rick, Robert, and Richard(the three R's) each brought their own strengths to the section, which helped us to have a very good section. I wish I had the same section resources now.

[Tubaguy56]

Ya, definitely on a piece by piece basis. I'd also like to point out however that even if your part is double by low woodwinds in a band setting, sometimes the line needs the extra tuba tone color to truly achieve the composers affect. last year I played Michael Daugherty's Niagara Falls, and the tuba part is split, so we did 1 and 3, myself being the one, and there were extensive lines that needed the extra power from the tuba in order to be heard, especially since they were the melody in the chord, with the lower tubas providing harmony.

[Rick Denney]

Part of the confusion comes from the fact that the writer didn't make his/her intentions clear.

There it is, the entire thread, in a nutshell! A few little letters (opt. or ossia or si piacere, whatever) instantly indicates the intent--and is almost never provided.

You assume that the players would do what the little letters suggest. That has rarely been my experience. Often, section players seem offended if a part marked "one player only" or "two players only" or "half the section only" is actually expected to be played that way. The decision to use more people than the composer indicates may be musically sensible in a given situation but it should always be made on purpose.

They are the same players who are offended by being asked not to play string bass cues when a string bass player is present, or who think it is their right to drop everything an octave just because they can.

Rick "calling it like he sees it" Denney

[windshieldbug]

They are the same players ... who think it is their right to drop everything an octave just because they can.

Just like the trumpet players who think it is a right to take everything UP an octave, just because they can...

[Kenton]

Technicians vs. musicians, huh!?!

[LoyalTubist]

Alfred Reed, in some of his tuba parts for band, used to indicate First Stand and Half of Section. Since I was first chair player through high school, I stood up when I saw that first marking. My band director thought I was a little silly but he saw the mark and explained that the composer intended for two players to be on each music stand. I never had that happen, unless someone forgot his music or there weren't enough parts to go around.

I think some of the European arrangers and composers have the right idea by writing separate parts. But then you might have something like I had with the town band that accompanied me for Tubby the Tuba for my Senior Recital in college: I was the only tuba player. So, not only was I the tuba soloist but I was also the bass section of the band. It worked out fine. But I had a lot more to play. And a lot of part juggling.

[Lew]

Alfred Reed, in some of his tuba parts for band, used to indicate First Stand and Half of Section. Since I was first chair player through high school, I stood up when I saw that first marking.

...

LOL, sounds like something I would have done in High School .

[Rick Denney]

Alfred Reed, in some of his tuba parts for band, used to indicate First Stand and Half of Section.

Yup, running into that as we speak. Our concert on Saturday is all Alfred Reed.

When I was in high school, there were only two of us, and we each had our own stand, so the markings "one only", "first stand", "first desk", "half of section", and "divisi" always meant the same thing.

Rick "in search of a good pianissimo" Denney

[windshieldbug]

Alfred Reed, in some of his tuba parts for band, used to indicate First Stand and Half of Section. Since I was first chair player through high school, I stood up when I saw that first marking

That's OK, as long as you didn't try to take your bell off for Half of Section...

[LoyalTubist]

Did I say I didn't do that?