Pictures of an Exhibition: Greatest Orch Piece ever written

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:50 pm

To my ears, the Ravel orchestration, while very lush, doesn't sound Russian enough. I like the Sergei Gortschakow version for its "Russianess".

BTW, has anyone heard the Mekong Delta version?

JayW · Post by **JayW** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:26 pm

I have to agree with Chuck on the Gortchakov arrangement.....it has something that the Ravel doesn't. To me at least when you compare them side by side.

THE TUBA · Post by **THE TUBA** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:22 pm

Onebaplayer wrote:I also lean towards russian music. Last weekend I had the extreme luck to see SF symphony play all shostakovich: Festive overture, piano concerto, and symphony no. 5. Festive overture almost killed me. I'm not sure if rostropovich is my favorite conductor for shostakovich, but SF is my favorite brass section. Jeff nailed the whole concert. Festive had the normal brass section (1 tuba, 3 trombones, 4 trumpets, 4 horns) and then up on the sides they had 4 more horns, 3 trumpets and 3 trombones. Then they played loud, in tune, etc. I don't know of any pictures sections that are that awesome. Not just because there were a lot of them, the music at those points where they all played was equally amazing.

I find myself partial to the Russians too. You should also try the fairly new Valery Gergiev Shostakovich Symphonies with the Kirov Orchestra from the Marinsky (sp?) Theatre. I have their recordings of Shosto 4,5,7, and 9. Their tuba player does a fine job, as does all of the brass. Reccently I have been addicted to the "invasion theme" in the first movement of Symph. 7. I believe Shostokovich volunteered as a fire-fighter during the siege of Lenningrad (or was it Stalingrad-I get the two mixed up

). Shostokovich, Mussorgsky, Tchaikovski, Rimsky, Prokofiev, Borodin, all good stuff...

-> Also try the James DePriest Shostokovich stuff with the Oregon Symphony. Jatik Clark=

Easty621 · Post by **Easty621** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:40 pm

It's surprising Bruckner hasn't been mentioned here and his greatest work symphony #7.

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:27 pm

If the Gortchakov setting is the one, which has two tubas and where all the horns play the Bydlo in unisono, then I have played it (as 4th horn).

The programming by the conductor was a protest against the Ravel setting, which is brilliant, but which turns Russian profoundness into French superficial elegance. Ravel even edits in the form. At the micro level with odd additional notes and at the macro level by omitting one of the Promenades.

I have attended a performance with the DRO and Celibidache of the Ravel version over 30 years ago. It was preceded by Ravelâ€™s Gaspar la Nuit. The performances were marvellous and really great to listen to.

However the side-by-side listening to an original piece by Ravel and the Ravel Pictures revealed, how much Ravel had made his Picture version his own music.

The Gortchakov is much less elegant. And it has an odd instrumentation trait, which I never have heard anywhere else.

The 1st and 2nd trumpets work closely together, whereas the 3rd trumpet takes its own soloist road much of the time. And no, it was not a bad player.

Having 8 horns playing the Bydlo perfectly in unisono was quite an experience. Not as warm as the lone eupher, but an ox wagon loaded with intensity.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:34 pm

Easty621 wrote:It's surprising Bruckner hasn't been mentioned here and his greatest work symphony #7.

It's probably because Bruckner's more fun to play than to listen to. From the cheap seats, he just seems to go on and on and on...

(Yeah, I know--I'm a cultural Philistine

But a single movement that's more than 20 minutes long? You could pack a Haydn symphony into that! )

THE TUBA · Post by **THE TUBA** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:35 pm

Easty621 wrote:It's surprising Bruckner hasn't been mentioned here and his greatest work symphony #7.

I like his 4th better.

Z-Tuba Dude · Post by **Z-Tuba Dude** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:26 am

Chuck(G) wrote:I like the Sergei Gortschakow version for its "Russianess".

Does anyone know of a professional recording of the Gortschakow?

quinterbourne · Post by **quinterbourne** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:36 am

Yes, Bruckner 4 is one of his best symphonies, actually it was his first successful one. Very idiomatic part writing.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:21 am

Z-Tuba Dude wrote:
Chuck(G) wrote:I like the Sergei Gortschakow version for its "Russianess".
Does anyone know of a professional recording of the Gortschakow?

Here's the one that I have:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00000 ... nce&n=5174

It's also available on a track-by-track basis for MP3 download from several sites.

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:51 am

Z-Tuba Dude wrote:Does anyone know of a professional recording of the Gortschakow?

http://www.sazuma.com/showdcd.php3?dcd_id=GNBC-4033

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:23 am

I saw the title on this discussion and had to laugh. Pictures at an Exhibition is not an orchestral piece, but an arrangement. Growing up in this area, I spent a lot of time at the University of Redlands, although I never attended the school as a postsecondary student. One of the faculty members there, the late Barney Childs, had a terrific impact on my life and my perception of music. He was of the belief that music should be played in exactly the form as the composer intended it. He hated arrangements, transcriptions, and anything else that wasn't "OEM." I don't think he was alive when we started using that term, but you get the idea.

Actually, I don't mind arrangements or transcriptions--I have written a few in my time, mainly for band and tuba ensemble.

As far as my nomination for best original orchestral work of all time, I like Tchaikovsky's Sixth Symphony. Except for the "march" movement, it's a very difficult piece to pull off.

XtremeEuph · Post by **XtremeEuph** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:45 am

strangely enough, its strange because I run into these topics and as a kid I NEVER listen to orchestras live etc like you guys but i happened to listen to this composition.........I loved it..

NickJones · Post by **NickJones** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:33 am

LoyalTubist wrote:I saw the title on this discussion and had to laugh. Pictures at an Exhibition is not an orchestral piece, but an arrangement. Growing up in this area, I spent a lot of time at the University of Redlands, although I never attended the school as a postsecondary student. One of the faculty members there, the late Barney Childs, had a terrific impact on my life and my perception of music. He was of the belief that music should be played in exactly the form as the composer intended it. He hated arrangements, transcriptions, and anything else that wasn't "OEM." I don't think he was alive when we started using that term, but you get the idea.

Actually, I don't mind arrangements or transcriptions--I have written a few in my time, mainly for band and tuba ensemble.

As far as my nomination for best original orchestral work of all time, I like Tchaikovsky's Sixth Symphony. Except for the "march" movement, it's a very difficult piece to pull off.

I have to agree If Pictures was original then it might have a case , the ravel even the elgar howarth versions are testement to the skill of the art of arranging.
Tchick 6 is great , I do prefer Tchickovsky 2 and 4 overall tho..

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:12 am

To me, watching an orchestra is different than playing in one. There are certain pieces that are more fun to play than to hear. A good example would be the Brahms German Requiem. I love to play it but after playing it I would hate to watch another orchestra playing it. But I could just as soon play it some more.

With regards to the Tchaikovsky symphonies, as the tuba player, I feel cheated on a couple of the symphonies. Symphony No. 6 is the one is which the tuba player really gets to play a lot, with a lot of important lines. The other symphonies, I admit, are probably easier on the ear, but I love to play the sixth. And it is a good one to watch, too.