Mouthpiece Allergies/Metal Toxicities

[thedeep42]

Greetings,

In the last year I have discovered (painfully at times) that I have become quite allergic to silver plating... Be it mouthpieces, the "good" old silverware, or even residue (sulfates?) left on my hands after playing a silver instrument (of which I own two...). However, the reaction is mainly oral, I get nothing on my arms or hands... just in the mouth and on the lips. I switched to a gold PT-65 on my F-tuba which works quite well, however I am still getting allergic reactions to this--not nearly so major. So... In the meantime I waited the requisite 2 months it takes to get into an allergy specialist in my part of the world only to find out they their standard patch test does not cover silver (as the oxidised form they use in the test solution would burn normal people's skin). however, I did find out that I am NOT allergic to gold. I am (mildly?) allergic to copper, nickel, potassium, and cobalt. (there were 12 metals on the test.. maybe other places do more..) The test results were somewhat dubious as they showed up AFTER the 48 hrs had passed and the test had been read as negative..the results are a little dubious.

Anyway.. enough background.

I am curious to know if there is any of those four metals (copper, nickel, cobalt, and potassium) in a standard Gold plate. From what I understand, almost no silver or gold is 100% pure. There are imperfections in all of these things... Any chemists out there? I'm thinking copper, but what do I know? It seems like a pure gold plate would wear away super fast.

Recently I've been playing a Kelly 18 for my BBb stuff in the brass band (surprisingly effective but temporary I think), and have adopted other mouthpieces of theirs in my teaching which will do great. However, I'm looking for something a little more upscale for my silver PT-15 F-tuba... (and later for the CC I am hoping to have in the next couple months: viewtopic.php?p=113264#113264)

Here are my options that I haven't tried yet:

1. Surgical Stainless steel (contains nickel but is so innert it doesn't need plating)
2. Synthetic rim on my PT mouthpiece (I think it still needs to be gold plated in order to fully avoid the silver..)
3. Fully synthetic copy of a desired mouthpiece (works ok with the kelly but it still sounds a little woofy, and i don't know if they have anything worth using on an F)

I refuse to just quit until I have tried all my options. If anyone has any experience with these three options or has any other recommendations (Kryptonite, play-do, "eye of newt", etc...) I'd really appreciate it. These things happen. Apparently.

Thanks!

[windshieldbug]

For immediate relief, you could try a synthetic mouthpiece (ala Kelly), or put a synthetic screw rim on a mouthpiece you like, and not have to wait at all. Alternately, lacquer or paint which you do not react to...

[tubatooter1940]

I tried spraying lacquer on my old silver mouthpiece but I must be allergic to that as well. A gold mouthpiece helped a little but allergies get worse as we age and I am rapidly sliding off the hill.
I get best results from a Kelly. I wash it with anti-bacterial soap and hot water before every gig but four hours of rock and pop will abrade enough skin off-mainly the lower lip, to break me out anyway.
Sometimes I am able to contain my excitement and play a whole evening at mf and f and not break out at all but blatweasel that I am, some wild crowds fire me up and it's blatt city. The old horn sounds so good doing that. It is like pushing my guitar over the edge with a bit of pre-amp to get a tad of distortion in my sound. I love it but it's tearing me up.

[Lew]

Is it possible that you are so sensitive to silver that you are reacting to it through the gold plate? I know that I have gold plated instruments that tarnish (although less than silver and only after a long time) from the silver under the gold. I think your best bet would be to try a mouthpiece with a screw rim and use a nylon rim. Doug Elliott mouthpieces can be had with a gold plated cup and lexan rim.

http://www.dougelliottmouthpieces.com/options.html

Loud mouthpieces are stainless steel with a screw rim and although he doesn't seem to sell plastic rims, you might be able to have one made. This might be an even better choice, a stainless steel cup with nylon rim.

http://www.loudmouthpieces.com/

[MartyNeilan]

I have always had a problem with breaking out with silver, so I have dropped the $$$ and gotten goldplated. Goldchops.com is a newer company that only does the rim and inner cup and can save you a few bucks - and has really fast turnaround. The other option is stainless - of the 4 mouthpeices I currently use (2 CC, 1F, and 1 bass bone) 2 are G&W stainless and I have zero allergy problems with them. Plus, you don't have to worry about the gold wearing off and you can rehape the rim to your hearts content without having to get them replated.

[iiipopes]

There is one more "plastic" alternative: DEG has a nylon cup mouthpiece with a nickel shank. I have one for my son, as well one of their cornet mouthpieces, as he is also allergic/hypersensitve to metal. The DEG is about the same cup diameter, but is a bit shallower and more rounded, with a slightly smaller throat than the Kelly 18, which I also have for my souzy. This may help your "woofiness." Remember that any synthetic material is softer than the conventional brass, and will not be as "quick" on the intonation. If this doesn't work, I believe your best bet is either stainless: G&W or Loud, for example, or a screw-on lexan rim from one of the main makers: Bach, PT, Laskey, Curry, etc. (Even though he's back in business after the fire, I don't believe Terry Warburton is making tuba mouthpieces again, yet, but it doesn't hurt to ask nicely.) Unfortunately, the custom rim option probably costs more with no refund policy; I've seen a couple on eBay here and there.

[windshieldbug]

An example of the DEG:

[Ryan_Beucke]

It is completely possible that you're still reacting to the silver through the gold plating. The gold plating is relatively thin, and it wears faster than silver, so if you have a very high senistivity to silver, it could be coming through still. I would suggest the previously mentioned steel/lexan options for long term, especially since gold plating will wear out eventually anyways.