Is this playable?

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:34 pm

I wouldn't buy either one of them as they are obviously some of the Chinese or Indian 'gems' that clutter Ebay.

Kevin Hendrick · Post by **Kevin Hendrick** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:40 pm

Look at how short the 4th valve tubing is on the euph. That valve isn't for changing notes ... it's for changing the tuning of the instrument from high pitch (A around 457 hz) to low pitch (A around 435 hz). It might function as a quarter-step valve (maybe), but (a) it's in a damned awkward place (as you noticed) and (b) a regular 4th valve would be much more useful!

Also, either somebody flipped the picture, or that horn's built backwards (mouthpiece on the right of the bell, valves 1-3 run by the left hand) ...

quinterbourne · Post by **quinterbourne** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:48 pm

I don't know how they sound (I can only imagine) but I would guarantee that you would get a few weird looks from your collegues if you dragged either of those into rehearsal.

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:36 pm

snorlax wrote:Is this playable??
What about this?

Yes, I am sure my 20 month old daughter would just LOVE to play with those!

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:39 pm

The strange euph 4th valve looks to me like a compensation valve for low register valve combinations. I do not believe it is high pitch/low pitch for two reasons: 1) High pitch instruments haven't been made by Besson, the last hold out to appease certain archconservative brass bands of the day, for about 45 years, and 2) There is no locking mechanism as even there is on some "traditional" 4-valve euphs. Moreover, not even tubas have this valve - 3/4 step - until you get to 6-valve instruments, but they do have it, and only for one purpose: alternate fingerings to get certain low notes in tune.

The flugal? Probably just a bad attempt at a 3+1 setup, with a mirrored picture.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:50 pm

I'm sure that it would make a fine percussion instrument.

Domain Name.......... tristarmusic.com
Creation Date........ 2004-07-08
Registration Date.... 2004-07-08
Expiry Date.......... 2010-07-08
Organisation Name.... TRISTAR
Organisation Address. 203, Kothari Indl. Estate, L.B.S.Marg
Organisation Address. Bhandup (West)
Organisation Address. Mumbai
Organisation Address. 400078
Organisation Address. MH
Organisation Address. INDIA

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:53 pm

bloke wrote:To me, the 4th valve loop on the import flugel looks to be somewhere around the correct length. It appears to have been designed to be operated with one of the fingers of the left hand (as clutzy trumpet and baritone players do not seem to be equipped with any sort of pinkie dexterity).

<img src="http://i1.tinypic.com/v41lhs.jpg">

Oh, come on! It's just for show! What trumpet player would ever use a 4th valve, anyway?

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:06 am

windshieldbug wrote: Oh, come on! It's just for show! What trumpet player would ever use a 4th valve, anyway?

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:28 am

windshieldbug wrote: Oh, come on! It's just for show! What trumpet player would ever use a 4th valve, anyway?

Like the fair number of tuba players with 4 and 5 valves who only use the first three. The majority of high school students with 4 valve tubas or baritones (or even euphoniums) don't seem to want to use the fourth valve, even if they know what it is for.
One of the previous owners of my 5 valve CC had the 5th valve locked down to play it in sort of BBb and the 4th was frozen from lack of use.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:38 am

Out of curiosity, I looked at some of the other items on the tristar website. The British Empire is still alive - just check out their cornet:

http://www.tristarmusic.com/products_us/tr_06.htm

and compare it to one old Besson cornet I happened to run across on eBay today, which also has the lead pipe going into the valve block on the left side:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 3APIC&rd=1

which just happens to be so similar to a Courtois model on which the Besson may have been influenced, and is still made in essentially the same form today:

http://www.dillonmusic.com/usedimages/0 ... 4331PM.jpg

The Courtois lead pipe goes through the 3d valve slide, the Besson goes over it and the Tristar goes under it; the point being that they all enter the block from the left (bell) side of the 3rd valve.

Then there is the other approach to getting the leadpipe into the valve block from the left side, as are the King Master Model, Silvertone and Super 20 models, designed by Reynolds before he went on his own and designed the Contempora and later the Argenta, albeit with the lead pipe going under the entire horn on those models.

Just a rambling to show there are probably better ways, as well as worse ways (some of Conn's experiments!) to run the piping besides what had become the "standard" double loop of current Bessons, Bachs, Kings, Taylors, Eclipses (as perfect as Leigh's new models are in all ways regardless!), and a lot of others based on that design.

prototypedenNIS · Post by **prototypedenNIS** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:21 am

Oric wrote:But they're "silvered"! Shiny...

chrome
not worth buying for scrap

Joe Baker · Post by **Joe Baker** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:38 am

windshieldbug wrote:Oh, come on! It's just for show! What trumpet player would ever use a 4th valve, anyway?

Well, this guy did...

____________________________________
Joe Baker, who asks "what's a quartertone among friends?".

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:47 am

Joe Baker "Who's just looking to 'Don' those cool white shoes"

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:17 am

bloke wrote:
Is this playable?
The real question is...
Will It Float?

Nope.

Lew · Post by **Lew** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:21 am

Joe Baker wrote:
windshieldbug wrote:Oh, come on! It's just for show! What trumpet player would ever use a 4th valve, anyway?
Well, this guy did...

____________________________________
Joe Baker, who asks "what's a quartertone among friends?".

Now that brings back memories! I think that my high school "stage" band wore shirts just like that when we played his music in 1971.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:43 am

Joe Baker wrote:
windshieldbug wrote:Oh, come on! It's just for show! What trumpet player would ever use a 4th valve, anyway?
Well, this guy did...

____________________________________
Joe Baker, who asks "what's a quartertone among friends?".

I didn't know Pat Boone played the trumpet!

Alex C · Post by **Alex C** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:48 am

Flugel Horns commonly have a fourth valve, as do many of the higher keyed trumpets.

A curiosity about these horns is that Tristar doesn't seem to know which side to put the the valves on their F/H. The three-valve looks like this

and the four banger (an apt term) looks like this

Cute, huh?

I'm sorry to report that it seems as though Tristar only makes an Eb tuba at this time and it only has three valves. It seems there's no BAT on the horizon.

The good news for Tubenetters is that they do make a four valve euphonium with a more standard four-valve arrangement (inspired by Cousenon) for only $225.

For added convenience, it appears to be left handed.

Just think, for the same amount of money you could either buy a Willson euph or 20 of these.

TubeNet

Is this playable?

Re: Is this playable?