Smiling :)

XtremeEuph · Post by **XtremeEuph** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:05 am

A common habit for some players is for their embouchure to smile correct? What exactly is this referring too..........what im really concerned about is smiling while lipping a note. For example my D and Eb are really flat in the staff so i have to lip them up a lot, creating a smiley embouchure, is this still a bad thing or lipping and exception.

Water Music · Post by **Water Music** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:19 am

I was always taught to form my lips by saying "emm," and keep my lip corners tight and wherever your smile is there is the way you need to form your embouchre. People usually say to not smile, to keep your corners down, and I agree, but you can still play well with the corners up.

J.Harris · Post by **J.Harris** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:45 am

Perhaps you should consider alternate fingerings for those notes rather than altering your face to such an extent.

XtremeEuph · Post by **XtremeEuph** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:41 am

if only it were possible........lol Im on a 3 valve horn and I dont think there is any alternate for the Eb, when I use the 3rd (and tune it) for the D, it is stilll quite flat (not as much) but then again im gettting myself used to a strange fingering to myself just for a few cents towards the mark lol.

pulseczar · Post by **pulseczar** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:47 am

If you're talking about the low D, try second valve instead. It's a false tone, but it'll come out better.

and as a side note, I like observing my face whenever I play. In the practice rooms at school there are mirrors so I'd play a low C, remove my face from the tuba, and then look in the mirror. It takes time out of praciticing, but it's comic relief.

XtremeEuph · Post by **XtremeEuph** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:14 pm

thanks for the advice...................I am talking about the D and Eb in the staff (bass clef)........ this partial seems to be out of wack on this particular horn, im just dealing with it.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:22 pm

[url=http://www.arches.uga.edu/~dzerkel/reso ... chure.html]A low brass player should never have a â€œsmileyâ€

XtremeEuph · Post by **XtremeEuph** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:02 pm

Well this is a real problem if I make no smiling on the mpc a rule..........First of all when i watch myself i cant even play above an F in the staff without starting to make a smiley face, and second of alll how are you supposed to lip anything?

This might have something to do with me not being able to play as high either...........which ive been trying to achieve for months, and have gotten almost no where

Rick F · Post by **Rick F** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:01 pm

Try rolling your lower lip in some. The pitch should go up.

XtremeEuph · Post by **XtremeEuph** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:04 pm

In as into the moutpiece or back in the mouth away from the mouthpiece

TUBAMUSICIAN87 · Post by **TUBAMUSICIAN87** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:50 pm

Water Music wrote:I was always taught to form my lips by saying "emm," and keep my lip corners tight and wherever your smile is there is the way you need to form your embouchre. People usually say to not smile, to keep your corners down, and I agree, but you can still play well with the corners up.

I was told about the emm technique and I tried it and liked it since I was doing something similar but was never taught how to create an embouchure I was just started on buzzing a mouthpiece and my embouchure was pretty much built from that

Rick F · Post by **Rick F** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:47 pm

XtremeEuph wrote:In as into the moutpiece or back in the mouth away from the mouthpiece

In toward your mouth some... like you're trying to say, "emm".

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:00 pm

There is a retired doctor in the university community band I'm in who plays a miraphone and does the "smiley" thing. He has probably done it all of his playing life, and I'm not one to "correct" him now. He has a good tone and reasonable technique, so how he does it, I haven't a clue. If I lose focus and pull on the sides, I immediately crack and lose intonation, and have to stop, rethink, maybe a couple of long breaths and a slow blubber if I'm getting tired, and refocus.

Oh, yeah -- "smiling" is just that: pulling the sides of your embouchure out to try to create more tension in the embouchure, usually to get higher notes than your embouchure is otherwise in shape for, or as a last resort in lipping up when you're too tired. This can improperly stretch the embouchure muscles, and combined with mouthpiece pressure can actually cut off the blood flow, bruise the embouchure muscles, and/or otherwise cause damage to them. Save the smiling for your portfolio or after-concert photos!

D in the staff, played on a BBb tuba, is the fifth partial, which can be notorious, depending on the instrument, for being flat. So you do have to lip up, but you do it by firming the corners of your mouth and accelerating the airstream (try raising the back of your tongue just slightly), not by pulling them out. Why your 3d space Eb is flat, I haven't a clue. You might want to take it to your tech and see if there is something crudded up somewhere. When was the last time you cleaned it thoroughly with a good warm soapy water bath and good rinse, for starters?

XtremeEuph · Post by **XtremeEuph** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:46 pm

No, those notes have always been flat on this horn, before and after bathing it heh......just a quirk

O ya and a few cleaning questions..........I dont have a snake, can I still clean the horn?

Do I have to unscrew the bottom part of the valve casings too?

What kind of soap to use, and how much?

and BTW how the hell are you supposed to get the valves out when its stuck without using plyers/wrenches?...........i dont have a kung fu grip so id say..impossible.

XtremeEuph · Post by **XtremeEuph** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:58 pm

damn I was just at the store yesterday getting a book and some slide grease.........didnt think of that..

The only problem is I dont want to buy the thing for a one time use......Im sure im getting a cleaning kit with my new horn (about a month and a half) .........so should I just leave this god awful thing alone for maintenance and just make good habits when I get my own?

XtremeEuph · Post by **XtremeEuph** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:10 pm

Ok, as long as I take my mouth away to breathe lol. Its been like 5 months since its had a thorough clean (its a school horn)......... before i got the horn when i first started, i bet it hadnt been cleaned in like 6 years.

How often should a euph be bathed a year? 4 times?......more? this thing only gets done twice, three max.

XtremeEuph · Post by **XtremeEuph** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:08 pm

Yes, when I first learned euph, (grade 6 and up) I remember my director always told the brass players to smile..........if i needed to blow more air or something she might look at me and say smile more.

Rick F · Post by **Rick F** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:31 pm

XtremeEuph wrote:Yes, when I first learned euph, (grade 6 and up) I remember my director always told the brass players to smile.

I think this advice of 'smiling' to get high notes was told to trumpter players. At least when I played trumpet (almost 50 years ago) that was the advice I was given.

Faster air makes more sense because it will get the lips to vibrate or buzz faster AND with more air, the tone will be richer or fuller for those high notes.

XtremeEuph · Post by **XtremeEuph** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:33 pm

no , the smiling had nothing to do with high notes, she was just making me do it for ....i dunno what she thought was "proper technique" or something.....maybe tone?

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:15 am

I started playing with a smile when I began playing the tuba some 37 years ago. It gave me sort of a Spike Jones trombone sound.

When I began studying with Gene Pokorny, he broke me of that awful embouchure. You should always have a hole (aperture) when you play, even for the high notes. Buzzing the lips may be a good thing for trumpet players, but I developed my chops by keeping my embouchure open all the way up high.