'fore & aft'

[bighorn]

I remember awhile back when I was in middle school, there was this girl who played the french horn. One day, she was waiting for her mom to pick her up after school, and a bunch of assclowns ran to her, grabbed her horn, opend the case, held it open so that it would fall to the ground, dropped roughly 4 ft onto concrete. The douchbags held her down, while 3 other kids proceeded to stomp on the instrument until it was flatter then a pancake almost. I t was even worse after that I found out the horn was only a day old, and that it was a birthday present for her. Its a really big shame what people do.

-tubachris

pitiful girl

[hurricane_harry]

and people wonder why kids go ans shoot thier classmates

[kegmcnabb]

and people wonder why kids go ans shoot thier classmates

I would imagine that those who would do something like that are the same ones who destroyed the young lady's horn.

[Chuck(G)]

Joe, the horn players have one option that tuba players don't have. Have a screwbell fitted and pack the thing in hard attache-type case.

[Lee Stofer]

Chuck,
We DO have the detachable-bell option, and American tuba players have had that option for decades. Not only do they make a lot of logistical sense for the player, they are a lot easier for a technician to handle and repair. Now, if a tubist wants a horn-style screw bell, Kanstul offers that as an option on his 3/4 CC and BBb tubas. The horn packs into two cases, a body case about the size of a euphonium case, and a bell case about the size of a fluegelhorn case.

[Chuck(G)]

Chuck,
We DO have the detachable-bell option, and American tuba players have had that option for decades. Not only do they make a lot of logistical sense for the player, they are a lot easier for a technician to handle and repair. Now, if a tubist wants a horn-style screw bell, Kanstul offers that as an option on his 3/4 CC and BBb tubas. The horn packs into two cases, a body case about the size of a euphonium case, and a bell case about the size of a fluegelhorn case.

Very interesting, Lee! Can you piont me to any pictures?

[XtremeEuph]

proceeded to stomp on the instrument until it was flatter then a pancake

I thought this was standard operating procedure for French Horns.

Yeah, maybe they were undercover repairmen who really know how instruments should be made.

[pulseczar]

Hey bloke, I love your floor. I've only seen a couple horns displayed on that floor, but imo the best tuba pictures of TB come from that floor.

On another note, did you use a Z60 to get rid of the warping? My master is training me on a fast eddy and I was wondering if I could do that sorta work with the fast eddy or would the Z60 be much better quality wise.

[iiipopes]

As I posted in another thread:

I think one point overlooked as to whether or not to use a gig bag is to look at the relative mechanical aspects of both gig bag and instrument. This is like the old science project to demonstrate force or mass verses area by taking an unsharpened pencil, putting a block on one end and balancing it on your palm. It's easy because the force is distributed along the entire face of the unsharpened pencil. I routinely carry my electric guitar and bass in gig bags, because even if they take a broadside, the worst that will probably happen is a small ding in the body and have to replace a string, because of the relatively flat nature of the beasts which tends to dissipate force rather than concentrate it. OTH, for instruments with a sizable bell, it's like taking the next step in the demonstration and sharpening the pencil, then trying to hold and balance the same block with the sharpened point against your palm. OUCH! Same mass and pressure from weight, but concentrated to a much higher force verses area. Unless the gig bag is exceptionally well designed, the bell just won't take it on larger instruments, as it is difficult to get enough padding to dissipate the energy from the blow naturally concentrated on the edge of the bell or some other vulnerable place.

[Rick Denney]

All life is a calculated risk.

Using a gig bag instead of a hard case is a risk, but a risk that has to be balanced against other risks, like not being able to carry the instrument in the car, not being able to hoist it up the stairs of the rehearsal or performance venue, or not being able to get it through the door.

Tubas don't come with handles, but they should. They don't have any devices to protect their vulnerable bits (as do, say, saxophones), but they should. A hard case provides this, but if using the hard case presents other impossible issues, then you have to balance the risk.

Of course, the horn player used the gig bag because it looked cool (so thinks Joe), and (more likely) because it had a shoulder strap, which the hard case does not. I carry my Yamaha 621 in a hard case, but the lack of a shoulder strap is a key fault when I'm trying to carry both it and my Holton.

And carrying music, mouthpiece, glasses, valve oil, and other supporting tidbits separately from the instrument is usually impossible, and how many hard cases have an appropriate compartment for such things? My 621 case has room for a mouthpiece and a bottle of valve oil and not one more thing.

For me, I don't use a gig bag for protection from dents. I use it to provide a needed set of handles, storage for accessories, and to protect it from scrapes. It is a calculated risk. As long as I realize that carrying it in a gig bag is light carrying the bare horn in terms of not running into things, the risk is manageable.

Rick "who has put more dents in horns when outside the case than when in ANY gig bag" Denney

[Dan Schultz]

I don't own a case. Hate 'em. In the case of tubas, the cases are just too darned big and heavy. Knock on wood, but I've learned to be careful when carrying my horn in a bag or just lugging it around bare. I guess I could go 'round banging into doorways, dragging the horn on the floor, and bumping up steps.... but what's the matter with just being careful?

Most of the damage that's been done to my horns has come at the hands of others... like the moron who pushed his chair back once and set one of the chair legs down on the edge of the bell. Face it, most rehearsal halls don't have enough room to keep the case beside your chair, anyway. Who puts their horn in the case during those 64 bar rests?... or between tunes??? After all, folks... this is just a bunch of pieces of brass in the shape of a tuba.

[pulseczar]

After all, folks... this is just a bunch of pieces of brass in the shape of a tuba.

Sacrilege! It is shaped by the hand of God!

[windshieldbug]

After all, folks... this is just a bunch of pieces of brass in the shape of a tuba.

Sacrilege! It is shaped by the hand of God!

OK; it is just a bunch of pieces of brass shaped around an air column that was shaped by the hand of God!

[Dan Schultz]

After all, folks... this is just a bunch of pieces of brass in the shape of a tuba.

Sacrilege! It is shaped by the hand of God!

OK; it is just a bunch of pieces of brass shaped around an air column that was shaped by the hand of God!

I am sure there are some out there who may think that gig bags are also the work of God! (careful! You'll get this thread locked)

[Chuck(G)]

Most gig bags are poorly designed, period.

Why don't gig bags have a round piece of plywood (or aluminum) sewn into the bell bell end to protect the edge of the bell from side blows? Why isn't there a similar rigid piece down at the bottom bow end? How about some "whalebone" type of stays in the middle to deflect light blows to unimportant parts like the valve cluster?

I took the big Pro-Tec bag and cut a round piece of 1/4" chipboard and sewed it into the bell end to protect the bell of my big York. Works great. I should probably take a hunk of 6" PVC electrical conduit, cut a segment out of it and sew it into the bottom of the bag too.

I guess the current crop of bags is what you get when your protection is designed by someone who knows only how to run a sewing machine.

[iiipopes]

And to help the inside of the horn -- a guy in the local community band who plays a Kalison CC has a form fit solid styrofoam cone that goes inside the bell, to help disperse the force from any mishaps, minimizing damage.

[Donn]

Most gig bags are poorly designed, period.

Why don't gig bags have a round piece of plywood (or aluminum) sewn into the bell bell end to protect the edge of the bell from side blows? Why isn't there a similar rigid piece down at the bottom bow end? How about some "whalebone" type of stays in the middle to deflect light blows to unimportant parts like the valve cluster?

For a light and slightly rigid liner material, check out "fluted polypropylene". It's widely used in temporary outdoor signs, looks vaguely like corrugated cardboard. Some time back I was working on a case made entirely of this material, but never worked out the details. It can't bond But as an insert, it would prevent front piston snags, for example.

I think I have a sousaphone gig bag somewhere in the basement, that's designed to be used with the bell assembled, bell facing down, and the floor of the bag is some rigid material. Insert 30 lb sousaphone, and you can bang some serious shins. I took it on the municipal bus once, that was fun.

[Biggs]

and people wonder why kids go ans shoot thier classmates

Whoa.

[windshieldbug]

and people wonder why kids go ans shoot thier classmates

... So that they can get dibs on their teachers...

[MaryAnn]

Gig bags are not for kids. Just for us old folks who move slowly enough anyway to not dent stuff.

My horn was damaged when I had it in a hard screwbell case (Marcus Bonna) and the shoulder strap let go due to faulty design and it hit the ground. Dented the bell. After it happened a second time, even after I was REAL careful about the straps, I quit using it until I got some carabiners on it instead of the cheap-a$$ connectors it came with.

I'm curious about any consequences to the kids who stomped the girl's horn....the parents must have had some legal recourse? A new horn is in the $3500 dollar range nowadays.

MA