Tuba in Big Band

[hurricane_harry]

miles davis, birth of cool, has a french horn also

[pgiampi1]

another miles davis/gil evans collaboration of music from "porgy and bess" has bill barber on tuba also. "miles ahead" might also...actually i'm almost positive it does. those came after "birth of the cool" and i think you'd enjoy it if you like BOTC

similarly, the gil evan's orchestra record, "...plays the music of jimi hendrix" has howard johnson on it (i believe his "electric tuba" is featured on "voodoo child (slight return)"

otherwise, nothing else pops into my head right now

[bigwillystyle]

Try to find the music of Django Bates. The tuba parts may not come through well on his recordings, but I can guarantee that they are butt-kickingly difficult. Unless he is using a reduced combo-type ensemble, there is tuba in all of his big band music.

Django is an odd fellow. His music reminds me of Zappa, but he certainly has a unique sound. If I remember correctly, Django plays tenor horn, or whatever that smallish euph-looking thing is. Fun guy, fun music.

[pgiampi1]

howard johnson has shown up in a lot of different places. i think some of his most interesting recordings are those with andrew hill, but he often plays just as much (if not more) bass clarinet (!)
he is a really talented dude, and has recorded with too many talented people to name here - some of the most noteworthy recordings are:

- carla bley - escalator over the hill (not positive about this one)
- brian eno/david byrne - my life in the bush of ghosts
- andrew hill - passing ships
- jj johnson - brass orchestra
- thad jones and mel lewis - consummation
- john lennon - double fantasy
- jaco pastorious - jaco pastorious, and word of mouth

that's quite a few different styles...hope that gives you some ideas

[tubamirum]

Stan Kenton used tuba and horns in a couple of albums which names I forget, maybe Artistry in Rhythm was one. Great music.

[Steve Marcus]

The Sauter-Finegan Band featured a guy named Harvey Phillips.

[tuba kitchen]

Gil Evans and Carla Bley both have very interesting recordings with tubas. The North German Radio big band (NDR) also has some really great tuba stuff, might be hard to find recordings in the states.

[imperialbari]

Not exactly big band, yet I heard Jack Dejohnette’s Second Edition Band live in Copenhagen some 20+ years ago. 5 players only, with the amazing Rufus Reid on bass, 2 very good sax/clarinet players, and Howard Johnson on his Mahillon 4+2P F tuba and on contralto clarinet. I don’t think HJ brought his baritone sax on that tour, but I am not sure.

The musicians, the music, the arrangements, and the intense exploitation of the relatively few players were an experience for a lifetime. My only complaint was, when JD went to the piano. He certainly can play that instrument extremely well, but I missed him on the drums, where he is a unique master.

Aside from great musicianship the band also owned humour. During one piece featuring HJ on tuba he played it partially as a flugelhorn and partially as Hoffnung’s CCC. The collaboration between Howard Johnson and Rufus Reid was hardly written down, but rather developed through an aural brotherhood. When HJ took his forays into the low range. RR played his upright string bass in the ukulele range. Very musical and very funny.

Even got the change to exchange a few words with HJ and JD after the concert, which didn’t diminish the experience.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

[RyanSchultz]

Ken Schaphorst uses tuba in his big bands.

There is a recording of the Lawrence Faculty Jazz Ensemble (then named Extempo), a "little big band," featuring Sam Pilafian as well.

[LoyalTubist]

Stan Kenton used tuba and horns in a couple of albums which names I forget, maybe Artistry in Rhythm was one. Great music.

He didn't include tuba in Artistry in Rhythm until it was re-recorded some twenty years after the first time.

This takes me back to the post I did a few days ago asking about tuba players in the Swinging years, as defined by Chuck Cecil (1936-47). Which of the top big bands used a tuba? Stan Kenton didn't add a tuba until the late 1950s.

[imperialbari]

Not exactly big band, yet I heard Jack Dejohnette’s Second Edition Band live in Copenhagen some 20+ years ago. 5 players only, with the amazing Rufus Reid on bass, 2 very good sax/clarinet players, and Howard Johnson on his Mahillon 4+2P F tuba and on contralto clarinet. I don’t think HJ brought his baritone sax on that tour, but I am not sure.

The musicians, the music, the arrangements, and the intense exploitation of the relatively few players were an experience for a lifetime. My only complaint was, when JD went to the piano. He certainly can play that instrument extremely well, but I missed him on the drums, where he is a unique master.

Aside from great musicianship the band also owned humour. During one piece featuring HJ on tuba he played it partially as a flugelhorn and partially as Hoffnung’s CCC. The collaboration between Howard Johnson and Rufus Reid was hardly written down, but rather developed through an aural brotherhood. When HJ took his forays into the low range. RR played his upright string bass in the ukulele range. Very musical and very funny.

Even got the change to exchange a few words with HJ and JD after the concert, which didn’t diminish the experience.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

[LoyalTubist]

If by Big Band you mean "swing", the SMU Mustang Band did a pretty resepctable job of it. There are 4 albums (yep like big black plastic discs) that are being remastered on CD. 96 guys, 8 basses. Tubas. ( No Need to flame, I admit it's a shameless plug for my alma mater)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_band



NO NO NO NO NO NO!

[MartyNeilan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_band

Well, if its WIKIPEDIA, it must be right!

[LoyalTubist]

That wasn't my point. My point was that IF Wikipedia knows it, how come a former student at SMU doesn't know what a Big Band is?

[LoyalTubist]

I played all those things in marching band with some fairly decent arrangements. And, having lived in the DFW area, I am familiar and have seen the SMU Band. It isn't what I think of as being in the Big Band genre. Remember, Glen Miller actually detested marching when he led the Army Air Forces band--it was a widely known fact. His band did have a lot of stand up, sit down choreography. But no marching. The band you are describing is not the same thing. Sorry.

[windshieldbug]

having lived in the DFW area, I am familiar and have seen the SMU Band

And you don't think that SMU has a very big band!?

[LoyalTubist]

At least you were honest when you said "I THINK".
Let the sound speak for itself. Go buy a copy. Either one.
Then come back and tell us what YOU think. I've told you
what I KNOW.
The guy asked for big band, meaning swing. Lots of tuba.
Instead of rattling on and on, go buy a copy then speak
from fact.

I have seen this band and it does not fit the genre of what I Big Band, from its historical definition. Drum and bugle corps people do the same thing to me to get me to like drum and bugle corps (it doesn't work and I have seen most of the major corps LIVE and in person).

The term "think" is used here as a safety device. I speak as somewhat of an authority. While this band may swing, while it may sound great, it doesn't have the usual sit down arrangement of saxes in the front (sitting), then trombones (with a "French" horn on one side and a tuba on the other, as Harry James used), and trumpets standing at the back.

As far as marching bands on the field, I can only stand so much, no matter how good the band is.

When you say "I KNOW" it only applies to you. Remember that not everyone thinks the same way. As a tuba player you should KNOW that!

[LoyalTubist]

And you don't think that SMU has a very big band!?

My high school marching band in California was twice its size. No, I don't.

[LoyalTubist]

Listen to original 1930s and 1940s recordings of Glenn Miller, Harry James, Kay Kyser, Horace Heidt, Fred Waring, Sammy Kaye, Chick Webb, Benny Goodman, Lionel Hampton, and Vaughn Monroe. You will know the difference.

[iiipopes]

What we have here...is a failure...to communicate.... (I should know - ask Rick Denny!)

Semantics. Nomenclature. Basic definitions.

This thread is not about how "big" your band is, meaning the number of people participating, whether concert, marching, pep, rally, show, drill, brass, mixed, symphonic, or any other descriptive adjective you care to attach.

This thread is about a particular style and type of band that was prominent (I said prominent, not exclusive, and no picking on the general dates) from roughly 1930 to 1950, which, because it had more players in it than the smaller groups that came before, like Louie Armstrong's seven, was called a "big band."

Of course, those of us who have played in a "big band," whether in school, hobby, on the road, or whatever, know this is a band that generally has 4 or 5 trumpets, 4 or 5 trombones, including a bass trombone, five saxes, and a rhythm section of trap set, upright bass, piano, and sometimes guitar (my apologies to Freddie Green), and usually played for dance hall gigs and concerts.

Now, with that in mind, it becomes apparent that a tuba was not a conventional instrument in such a setup. Hence this thread. So, all the discussion about anything other than what I have described above is, frankly, missing the point in this particular thread. All of the artists listed in the various posts played this particular genre of music, arranged for instrumentation in the manner above.

Don't get hung up on the red herring of "swing" or "swing band," as that term applies more correctly to the style of the music played, with the unequal eighth note treatment (I must digress - I really hacked off a "classical" music history professor when, in describing the French harpsichord style of "inegale" as "inegale = swing.") A big band can swing. It should swing. The music of the period, if you are one of those who really get into the concept of "period performance techniques," dictated it, as it was easier to dance to, and hence, more enjoyable to listen to. But a big band can also play marches and other "legit" (Oh, I hate that term, but for illustration's sake...) music so arranged.

So, let's get on with the thread as it was intended.

My high school band did not always take the time to train a bass guitar player, the modern equivalent of the upright bassist in the traditional big band, and definitely had no bass bone players. So we always had a sousaphone in the #5 seat. Being a King with the smaller throat and .687 bore instead of a larger bore or larger throat tuba, it wasn't that bad, actually.