Once again, the new Besson CC

[jaddingtonii]

So the band I'm in just got one, after a year's worth of waiting. I like it, but the intonation is all over the place and anything with the 4th valve doesn't center well at all. Basically I dont like it but once we purchase something, it's ours until the life cycle says it can be replaced (one of those Army things). Anyway, any of you that own or owned one, is there any modifications you've done with this tuba? I am looking for anything, just not opinions of the problems I have with it. I'm leaving in a couple months to go to another band but my group leader will want this horn up and running so I need suggestions of blanket repairs some of you have done with the tuba.
Thanks,
SPC (P) John Addington

[LoyalTubist]

If that was one of the last ones made (the Besson factory has been on hiatus since December and was sold to to the Buffet company in France), it was probably very hurriedly put together. I used to think I wanted a C Besson until I heard the problems other people had with them. The company makes (or made) great BBb and Eb tubas. So I don't know what to tell you.

[quinterbourne]

I'm curious as to exactly where these Besson CC tubas were made. I've heard that Besson had moved a fair amount of it's plants to India/China, but I thought that was just for the student lines. Perhaps the professional models are being assembled there too, that would certainly explain the lack of workmanship/consistency. Besson seemed to be quite secretive about this.

I had a collegue planning on becoming a Besson artist, which would mean a switch to the Besson CC. She tried out the horn, and she did not like it one bit, refused to get it. You're not alone in the dissatisfaction for this horn. I don't know who does the purchasing for your group, but they may have bought a "dud."

I really don't have much advice on how to improve it. I would suggest bringing it into a pro (repair tech) to make sure all the valves/valve guides line up and all that jazz. I'd say give 'er a real good cleaning, but I assume it's brand new. Yes, and try many different mouthpieces as suggested above.

I've been playing on a PT-6p and I find the low register to be a bit stuffy as well. Any thing using the 4th valve is a bit sluggish. Consider using 1+3 (pull 1st valve) for some of the lower register (ie low D, G).

[pulseczar]

have you talked to your local repairman yet John? That person may have a good idea of what to do, unless he/she's not a brass specialist.

[Cameron Gates]

I'm really concerned about the state of besson, having only ever really used these instruments. I'm just glad that i have a great 983 at my disposal, but in my opinion, the 995 Cc tuba was a piece of crap, even if it was designed by walter nirschl.

This has really bugged me for a couple of years now. How are those older 4/4 Nirschl tubas such gems while these Bessons are spotty at best. I know that the leadpipe is different (length, shape?) but is that the only difference other than workmanship? Could someone in the know chime in on the exact physical differences.

I really like those 4/4 Nirschls. I played an old one at Dillon's a few months back that was worth every penny they wanted for it.

Cameron Gates

[iiipopes]

From what I can gather, I agree that the overall design is superlative, the overall execution dismal. The only thing you can do is to take it to a really good tech and have him go completely through it, as if it were being set up from scratch, rehoning, relapping and even reassembling as necessary, cleaning out the shavings and slopped over compound as he goes. This is especially true if any of the braces were hurriedly soldered, as they may be in the wrong place or had to force the tubing to get it to come together from not laying the parts accurately on the assembly jig, any of which can produce stuffy notes. As far as sourcing, Besson had outsourced their lower line to a factory in India, and had the traditional line parts made in Germany (Melton? VMI?) and assembled in the UK.

[Steve Marcus]

Bear in mind, too, that new Besson 995s sold for approximately $6700, while the last new Walter Nirschl 4/4 CC tubas (marketed as the WN-15 by Custom Music) were priced in 1999 at $9800.

[windshieldbug]

... then again, I've been rethinking this "hand fitting" benefit to all the joints and ferrules after seeing that Conn is building a bass trombone valve that features blind tubing and therefore space)...

[Alex C]

So the band I'm in just got one, after a year's worth of waiting. I like it, but the intonation is all over the place and anything with the 4th valve doesn't center well at all. ... Anyway, any of you that own or owned one, is there any modifications you've done with this tuba?

I own a Nirschl but I played several Bessons and a good friend owns one. I will agree with cktuba that these horns are mouthpiece sensitive. Everyone who plays either Nirschls or Bessons successfully (that I've seen) uses a Monette.

These Bessons were never made in India. Nirschl made all of them (though I wouldn't put it past him to farm out some of the labor if he could).

The big difference between the Nirschl and the Besson is the leadpipe. Still, I have played enough Bessons to know that the leadpipe is not your problem.

The more recent Nirschls seem to be heavier than the Bessons but they are heavier than the early Nirschls too. That ain't it.

Another difference is the price. A Nirschl stamped horn should be better because of the Custom Music Price but I have played two terrific Bessons.

Bottom line: mouthpiece. After that, it's the difference between individual (and supposedly handmade) horns and you work with what you have.

...I'm leaving in a couple months to go to another band but my group leader will want this horn up and running so I need suggestions of blanket repairs some of you have done with the tuba.

Since you are leaving in a couple of months to go to another band, you should not take on the responsibility of making sure this horn is "up and running." You didn't make the choice or buy the horn; someone else did, it's their responsibility.

Also remember that you will not be promoted or given a raise if you find a way to make it play well. The truth is that no one will even remember what miracle you did six months after you are gone. Forget the responsibility... don't be manipulated that way.

[Dave Roberts]

Alex is dead-on with the mouthpiece discrepency. You better be using a "LARGE" shank, (ie, Euro or older alex) to minimize slide adjustment. I currently use a modified heavy Warren Deck and also a Doug Elliott Helleberg cup/sharp narrow rim with a Euro shank. Outstanding results. The Laskey mouthpieces also work well.

Sometimes you need to experiment for best results. No horn on the planet is a pick-up perfect tuba. I don't think I've ever picked up a tuba, blown a few notes, and passed judgement.

Just a little food for thought.