Loudly blowing out spit... why?

[Leland]

Here's something I've learned in my relatively short playing time --

Opening a spit valve/water key, then blowing with great force, is completely unnecessary.

I've dumped out copious amounts of water by just tilting the horn so that the spit valve is at its lowest point then merely pressing the lever. I might add a couple puffs of air, just enough to break the water's surface tension, to shake out those last couple drops.

Why, then, do I see players who feel that they have to go "PFFFF... PFFFFFF" to empty their horns? Don't they understand that they're also blowing the water past the spit valve, reducing the effect of the whole act?

Well, maybe this is just more of a rant/vent... just had to get if off my chest after being alongside some particularly noisy spit-emptyers in a local band.

[XtremeEuph]

great post, but how come more water comes out if you do blow...meh not worth it, just makes a spray mess anyway.

For blokes twirling comment, cant you just pull the slides. Im guessing you dont want to mess with intonation or scratch the instrument like me, but for the first and second valves, can you just blow the water into the main slide somehow?



how much do you think it would cost to get a water key put on...?

[Leland]

If I planned ahead, I could shoot a video clip to show a full ten seconds' worth of draining water from the spit valve on my horn at work. Believe me -- blowing into the leadpipe won't empty it any faster.

Another thing that people forget is that the interior of a brass instrument isn't sealed shut in any way. If it were, then air would have to bubble back in through the spit valve as water fell out, slowing down the overall flow. Instead, water can just pour straight out.

Maybe a demonstration with a clear pipe will illustrate this better, but I really don't think the hassle is necessary.

[Leland]

Sometimes, pulling slides isn't enough, as water can collect in branches that don't have spit valves. I've had water collect beyond any spit valves already installed (and, on a couple horns, where adding one wouldn't be that practical), so twirling the horn one way or another became necessary.

Another annoyance -- that I only remember seeing once -- is doing a tuba twirl during a soft section of a piece during a concert. I'll pretty much guarantee that nobody was listening to the oboe soloist because they were busy watching the spinning Mirafone in the back.

[XtremeEuph]

Nice, which direction do you need to twirl it, and do you have to wait a few seconds between each turn?

[Leland]

Choosing which direction just depends on whether you want to send it out the bell, out of a pulled tuning slide, or towards one of the other spit valves.

And yes, you should move it slowly enough for the water to not get stuck by centrifugal force. Imagine rolling a marble through the tubing except that, for whatever reason, the marble moves slower than it should.

[Dan Schultz]

In one of the community bands I play in, I sit next to a fellow who plays a YBB-641. I don't have a clue how he makes so damned much racket getting rid of the watter

[Carroll]

doing a tuba twirl during a soft section... nobody was listening to the oboe soloist because they were busy watching the spinning Mirafone in the back.

i just like to gross people out. it seems like more is coming out

Sometimes you can half-valve while holding the waterkey open and get even more oboe obliterating sound. Then you can turn your horn sideways and blow the water out from under the keys and brandish a long silk scarf to wend in between tubes and then closely inspect the shape of your mouthpiece.

[fpoon]

Sometimes that "PFFFFFFF!" just feels good!

But I'm with you Bloke, the more spitvalves, the better. Or, at least in places they're needed...

[Water Music]

Choosing which direction just depends on whether you want to send it out the bell, out of a pulled tuning slide, or towards one of the other spit valves.

And yes, you should move it slowly enough for the water to not get stuck by centrifugal force. Imagine rolling a marble through the tubing except that, for whatever reason, the marble moves slower than it should.

I'm 100% sure there is no such thing as centrifugal force. Now Centripetal...

[Leland]

And yes, you should move it slowly enough for the water to not get stuck by centrifugal force.

I'm 100% sure there is no such thing as centrifugal force. Now Centripetal...

I've been waiting for someone to say that... LOL

[bort]

how much do you think it would cost to get a water key put on...?

I think it was about $40 when I got one added.

[iiipopes]

And yes, you should move it slowly enough for the water to not get stuck by centrifugal force.

I'm 100% sure there is no such thing as centrifugal force. Now Centripetal...

I've been waiting for someone to say that... LOL

What we call centrifugal force is nothing but an application of Newton's first law of motion. The reason a centrifuge works is that as it spins, it sets a mass in motion. Mass in motion wants to continue in that straight line motion. But the curve of the centrifuge exerts force on the mass, constantly changing the direction aspect of its vector, and therefore the force is felt as pressure, or inertia, on the outside of the mass accelerated by the centrifuge. The amount of force necessary to keep the centrifuge, a rock on a string, or any other object of mass, in a circular or near circular path is the centripetal force, whether applied by your steering wheel and tires, the amount of tension the string can handle, or gravity:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/HBASE/cf.html

[XtremeEuph]

ahh 40+!!!.........seems like a lot, but im sure Bloke has his reasons (no need to explain )

But to answer my previous question, will blowing fast air with the pistons down move the water in the first valve or two into another with a water key?

[THE TUBA]

In most instances I try to let the condensation just drain out. The "spit" always gets all over my hand when I try to blow it out. I do it sometimes as a superstition, or for dramatic effect.

When I was a freshman (in high school), one of the senior tuba players wouldn't empty his slides all day, just letting it all gather in the main tuning slide. In the last few minutes of class he would take out his slide and throw an hour's worth of condensation at me.

The other day in class we did a run of our spring concert (some good stuff: Esprit de Corps, Hounds of Spring, Circus Bee...) and my mouth was as dry as a bone halfway through. I was coughing every other note, so I did what any tuba player would do: take a swig of spit. I checked to see where my 4th valve bottom left slide (this one gets the most "spit") was and took it out took a sip. It tasted decent, and I played the rest of the practice run without problems (well, problems related to dry mouth...). Not quite fruit punch, but it'll pass.

[XtremeEuph]

When I was a freshman (in high school), one of the senior tuba players wouldn't empty his slides all day, just letting it all gather in the main tuning slide. In the last few minutes of class he would take out his slide and throw an hour's worth of condensation at me.

lmao that is exactly what I do sometimes, fricken hilarious

The other day in class we did a run of our spring concert (some good stuff: Esprit de Corps, Hounds of Spring, Circus Bee...) and my mouth was as dry as a bone halfway through. I was coughing every other note, so I did what any tuba player would do: take a swig of spit. I checked to see where my 4th valve bottom left slide (this one gets the most "spit") was and took it out took a sip. It tasted decent, and I played the rest of the practice run without problems (well, problems related to dry mouth...). Not quite fruit punch, but it'll pass.

heh we played Circus Bee as well........to the spit... THAT IS JUST @*#$&(#@$*(@$*) SICK!

[LoyalTubist]

Was it Min Leibrook who would dip snuff when he was playing and, when he emptied his slides, a brown liquid, resembling Hershey's® Syrup, would come streaming out?

[Rick F]

Why, then, do I see players who feel that they have to go "PFFFF... PFFFFFF" to empty their horns? Don't they understand that they're also blowing the water past the spit valve, reducing the effect of the whole act?

I agree! This irritates me too. One of the euphers in our section insists it's necessary to do all that blowing. At last Saturday's concert with guest conductor Maestro Loras Schissel, this guy was blowing so much while Loras was talking to the crowd that I saw about 8 or 10 folks in the audience look over to see what was going on. Like you said, simply opening the water key drains most of the water. So if you don't get every single drop out -- you'll get that drop out a few minutes later when you drain again.

[Leland]

Great post! I like to do the french horn colour gaurd twirling technique. It gets the attention of those who must be aware of what I like to call "lake tuba" quietly residing on the floor between my feet slowly devouring all music that lands in it.

The only problem is it takes me twenty minutes to figure out where all my slides go!

Oh, just put 'em in anywhere. It's not like the rest of us would listen.

[iiipopes]

Yes, just be careful upgrading Jupiter spit keys to Saturns so you don't leave any Mars on the horn.