Is there a mp similar to the Tommy Johnson N4, but heavier?

[manatee]

I like heavy mouthpieces, but I must admit the Marcinkewicz N4 has me tounging like a snake. I don't like the ending result sound though. Suggestions for comparable? Thanks.

[tubacdk]

well, you could try the other marc N line mpcs, the N3 being slightly larger than the N4, and the N2 being even larger. Marcinkiewicz mpcs tend to respond very quickly, so it could just be a Marc tendency that you may not like.

[Roger Lewis]

When I was on a similar quest many years ago I achieved the desired results by wrapping the outside of the mouthpiece with two layers of duct tape. Yeah, it looks funny but it will make a big difference and it will play like a heavywall mouthpiece.

Just my observations.

[manatee]

To clarify, I love the response of the N4, I just wish it were heavier. I like the "bowed string bass" sound, and I just cannot get that with the N4.
Since I am back, is there a heavy wall mp , (that is not a Bach),
which is a bowl cup and not a Helleberg/funnel?
Duct tape idea may work, but people already think I am strange.
Wick makes that "tone booster", (sound sleeve) that goes over the mp for all other instruments, would be nice if he made one for tuba.

[Jay Bertolet]

If you're looking for a bowl-cup mouthpiece that isn't a Bach, try a Mike Finn MF2. That mouthpiece is patterned (roughly) after the Bach 18. I use it myself in place of an 18 for certain applications. It is a very good mouthpiece.

My opinion for what it's worth...

[manatee]

Eeeek! The Marc N4 concert hall is $250.00 @ the Marc site, $188 @ Mouthpiece express. Pretty pricey. I know the Finn is expensive too, but not that expensive. If your going to spend Money like that, might as well go the Monette route. Just my opinion.

[Jay Bertolet]

Well, let's see. You want exactly the mouthpiece that fits you, and you don't want to pay for it. This sounds realistic.

Seriously, why not just try out some of the suggestions you've received and see if any of them work for you. Then save your lunch money until you can afford what you really want. Or don't, and be miserable making music less in quality than you know you can produce. The choice is yours.

My opinion for what it's worth...
(apparently overpriced as well)

[manatee]

I am sorry, but that is uncalled for. This is supposed to be a friendly place to exchange ideas and information.
Flaming me because I can't find it in my budget to spend X amount of money on my hobby is not okay. This is supposed to be fun. Let's not act like a bunch of trumpet players.

[TubaRay]

"...act like a bunch of trumpet players." Talk about uncalled for.

Manatee, I don't believe anyone was attempting to flame you. Sometimes some of us will be a bit blunt, but I don't believe there was any ill will intended.

Now for you to bring up trumpet players...

[Jay Bertolet]

Perhaps our intrepid poster would care to take 3 minutes and surf the web for the factual information he has commented on. For example:

"Eeeek! The Marc N4 concert hall is $250.00 @ the Marc site, $188 @ Mouthpiece express. Pretty pricey. I know the Finn is expensive too, but not that expensive. If your going to spend Money like that, might as well go the Monette route. Just my opinion"

The Marcinkiewicz Concert Hall N4 mouthpiece is indeed $187.55. However, I did a search of the Mike Finn website and a gold plated MF2 is listed for $145.00. In silver plate, $115.00. I then went to Dillon's website and the Monette mouthpieces are listed for $350.00.

I guess if you think that spending a max of $145.00 is nearly the same as spending $350.00, I can't help you in any way.

My opinion for what it's worth...

[manatee]

I thank the previous posters for their advice and information. I was just giving the Monette as an example. I realize my logic is all over the place. I don't pay attention to detail like a lawyer, that is why I have a lawyer. Frankly, I thought they cost about $250. The only way I am getting one of these is on ebay. The Finn is a lot less than I thought it was last I looked. Thanks again.
Why do these mouthpieces cost so much? There are no electronic, or moving parts. If brass players would question these prices and refuse to buy when something is overpriced, perhaps we all would be better off. I believe when we make choices that take price into consideration, we can and do, influence the market.
Why should (fill in the blank)'s mouthpiece cost so much more, when it does the same thing as a Faxx? Sure if you make a gazillion mouthpieces like Bach, your price will come down, but should these others really be that expensive?

[Gorilla Tuba]

There are at least 3 business issues that go into the "High" price of mouthpieces.

1. Perceived value - If you charge a lot for a mpc, people perceive it as being better. Sometimes this may be true.... often it is not.

2. R & D - Most of the high end manufacturers spend countless hours trying to improve their products. This is expensive.

3. Gotta make at least a little money.
_______________________________________________

For screw rims/ consultations/ parts stocking/ expertise/ customization, etc., It seems to me that people like Doug Elliot charge an appropriate amount. Perhaps, they even charge below what really should be making.

On the low end (in terms of price), there are plenty of cheap quality mouthpieces that copy classic designs (Faxx, etc).

For my money, Mike Finn and other mid-priced but still high end (quality) mouthpiece makers offer a unique and needed new market niche.

As to Bach mouthpieces, their somewhat high price is justified because their designs are the classics that most others either copied or modified. There is a percieved value in being the original.

Clearly, mouthpiece pricing has little to do with material costs.

[MikeMason]

supply and demand. apparently monette is selling all they want to sell at 350 or they would lower their price,or they're too busy making and selling their other products to care.... a company has the right to charge any price for their goods or services they wish. they also have the right ot go out of business. the opportunity to succeed fablulously is directly proportional to the chance of failing fabulously. God Bless America!!!

[manatee]

As I have not been on here in a while, and much air has flowed through the throat since that day. . . I was under great pressure at that time and was losing my job due to a medical condition which was permanent. I have lived on medical retirement since that time, so there have been no new tubas. I have been able to occasionally buy mouthpieces, my last foray being a Mirafone Rose Symphony. One has to realize that we all aren't in a comfortable place. Some of us are young, some infirm.

[iiipopes]

Why should (fill in the blank)'s mouthpiece cost so much more, when it does the same thing as a Faxx? Sure if you make a gazillion mouthpieces like Bach, your price will come down, but should these others really be that expensive?

Why do Saville Row suits cost so much more when they do the same thing as a JCPenney Stafford?

We're all different. We all sense to a degree or another certain aspects of mouthpieces and playing in general. We all have different budgets and abilities. Some wear Saville Row suits, while others (like me) wear JCPenney Stafford. Each person has a unique situation, and my comments are meant to be constructive and supportive, because I've also been through many financial ups and downs, and am currently in a rather down position myself.

Some do great on a Faxx mouthpiece, or a Bach, or a PT, or Conn, or whatever. Like the JCPenney Stafford suits, they are good moutpieces, designed for the mainstream and average player. Some of us prefer something a little different, so after spending thousands of dollars on instruments and other accessories, it is only a fractional percentage to spend a few hundred on proper, fitted mouthpieces. So I have, for example, my custom-tailored Curry 128D with modified rim thanks to the recommendation by Matt & rim modification by Vladimir @ Dillon music that feels and does exactly what I desire for my upright bell, and my custom Kanstul 18 with a matching rim and cup ID from Jim for my recording bell, and my "JCPenney" Kelly 18 for my outdoor gigs. With these mouthpieces that fit me and the instrument, I can focus on the playing and I'm not always fidgeting or adjusting the mouthpiece on my embouchure. I'm just a community band player, but I still feel freedom to concentrate on the music with the fitted equipment. And I've also been lucky enough to earn a little bit of weekend money from a gig here and there, so that paid for the mouthpieces, and the other equipment I've purchased both stock and had tailored to suit me over the years.

Even 20 handicap golfers benefit from even the most elementary fitting of good golf clubs, so they can hit the ball more consistenly and enjoy the game more.

At the very least, even folks who wear the JCPenney Stafford suits, and need a 42 regular, don't purchase a 44 long or a 40 short. So on the Besson I do have the Wick 1 that was designed for it, and it is a great combination, at least for me.

Then, there will always be those who purchase the highest price item out there, for whatever reason, or no reason at all.

And Bach does make Megatone (heavyweight) versions of their 7, 12, 18, 22 & 24AW, and PT does make heavyweight versions of selected models of their mouthpieces, the 24+, 50+, 83+ & 88+. Maybe one of them will suffice, as they are marginally less expensive than some of the other boutique brands, and are on sale right now (depending on stock and availability) at Custom Music.

[Richard Murrow]

It is my understanding that the Loud 10 was designed for Tommy Johnson. You could check with Joe Murphy on that, but I'm pretty sure that is correct. I have one and they look very similar. The Loud is of course much heavier. Take a look at the Loud website also to confirm. I hope this fills the bill for your needs.

Richard Murrow

[manatee]

When I started playing big tubas a few years ago, I got a 24AW Megatone from Bach that was outstanding. Even though I played a 24AW Benge mp in the Army as my sousaphone mp, it is not a mp for one who has advanced so I started my quest. Along the way I did buy, and get rid of Bach Megatones 12 and 18. Neither of them resonated, at all, like the 24 AW did. I wonder if anyone else finds this to be the case among the Bach Megatone series?

[poomshanka]

It is my understanding that the Loud 10 was designed for Tommy Johnson. You could check with Joe Murphy on that, but I'm pretty sure that is correct. I have one and they look very similar. The Loud is of course much heavier. Take a look at the Loud website also to confirm. I hope this fills the bill for your needs.

Richard Murrow

The story, as best I can remember parts of it:

Marcinkiewicz copied an old mouthpiece of Tommy's for Gene Pokorny (perhaps a Minick, or maybe a Harrick - I can never remember). This may have been done by Norm Pearson while he was there. I had a old copy of that piece myself, and turned it over to Joe. It became the LM-10. Turns out at the time this all went down, Tommy was using a copy of the original piece made for him by Kanstul with an exterior almost identical to the Marcinkiewicz. Joe sent a copy of the LM-10 to Tommy, who really liked it, and agreed to be an "artist endorser". I believe Tommy alternated between the Kanstul and LM-10 is his work.

Design on the LM-10 is more similar to the N4 than something Helleberg-ish, but it is a bit different than the N4. As I always say, think "C4 on steroids".

...D