Stealing students for the summer

[rascaljim]

Just a little venting, but I had two of my more advanced students inform me that they will not be taking lessons this summer from me, but from a guy in their neighborhood that plays tuba.

They told me this guy "can do a lot for them" and that's all they seem to know about him, except that he's doing his undergraduate degree at some little school out of state. So basically, there's no personal connection to the guy. They couldn't even tell me his name. That all bugged me because although I'm not Arnold Jacobs, I've got my masters and I play regularly with a regional orchestra.

From what I understand the guy contacted at least one of my students about lessons "because he needs summer money." Needless to say, most of my income is from the lessons I teach in addition to the few gigs I get here and there so this caused me a bit of anxiety. Finances were also the first thing to come to mind when this was sprung on me at 7:30 this morning.

I did my best to try to explain why this wasn't really cool from my view, but I won't know till friday what they're going to decide.

Now I'm not sure what to think. I'm hoping that this guy just doesn't realize that he would be taking students from me and this is all inocent, but if he's talked to my students he would obviously know that they are taking lessons.

From what my students tell me they believe they have learned a lot this year and enjoy their lessons so I'm not really sure how to take this either.

I did talk one of the two of them into signing up for a time this summer (it was later in the day so I had a chance to come up with a better lecture) but it's not in stone.

Has this happened to you? If so what did you do? What do you think?
/rant
Jim Langenberg

[Dan Schultz]

I am not a teacher. However, I spent many years designing, building, and selling automation systems. I was the best. Whenever I lost a sale I always figured one of two things happened: either the customer screwed up.... or the competition screwed up. Now... assuming you are the best, either your students screwed up.... or the competition is working too cheap! If you really are the best, they'll be back.

[Dean]

That sucks...

They couldnt tell you his name, or they wouldnt?

[Dylan King]

It's a free market. The students will go where they think they can get the most bang for their buck. If this new teacher is any good, you can kiss the students goodbye. If he sucks, well, expect them to come running back ASAP.

You could always lower your price.

[TexTuba]

As my teacher told me, "You're the consumer. If you don't like the product, find someone else who can give you what you want/need." I like the product, so I stay. Maybe they won't like this new teacher's and come back to you. Good luck!!

Ralph

[rascaljim]

See that's the thing. One student knew his last name but the other said he only knew that the guy is a friend of a friend (the first student).

I charge what the school district tells me to charge and I don't think lowering my rates by a buck or two are going to make any difference. The area I teach in is pretty affluent so I'm sure it's not a money issue.

The only reason I've been given is that this guy's home for the summer and he's trying to get students so he doesn't have to get a summer job. That's it.

The other thing that's funny about it is they are planning on studying again in the fall so that's gotta count for something. I get the feeling they might be viewing my lessons as part of band as I go to their schools to teach so maybe to them it's like getting a different teacher for summer math class.

I'm still keeping my fingers crossed that this is an oversite on the parents part.

Grrr....
Jim Langenberg

[Dan Schultz]

You could always lower your price.

If you are 'the best'... you should RAISE your price!

[windshieldbug]

It may suck, but it's a fact of life. There are always more people out there looking to hustle more of a fixed market, so more for them means less for somebody.

Why do I take such a philosophical attitude? My wife is a kollej flute professor, and if you want to see too many people in a cutthroat world, try teaching flute.

But you're right, playing tuba is like a [person]hood. Poaching students just isn't cool, no matter how much you need summer $. They'll be back.

[RyanSchultz]

I always let kids know that if they leave I don't guarantee them a spot when/if they come back.

[tofu]

This kind of stuff happens in whatever business your in. Often folks won't tell you what the real reason is. They'll make something up so that they can "get off easy" without a confrontation that makes them feel guilty.

It could be something like one students mom's sister's best friend's son is home from school for the summer so why don't you send Johnny to him for lessons for the summer and mom says and how about Johnny getting some of his friends to take as well. That's the kind of goofy thing that happens that you probably are never going to hear directly.

Don't take it personally and I know that is easy to do. There are people out there who no matter how great a job you do for them will dump you. Some will come crawling back begging you to take them again. You will and do a great job for them and then they will dump you again. It happens - you just have to move on. People will leave for the wackiest reasons including purely imagined ones.

Don't cut your price -- if your clients only value you based on price than they don't understand the value you bring.

[windshieldbug]

You can lead a horse to water, you can even make 'em play tuba, but a silk purse wasn't built in a day from a bloody stone!

[rascaljim]

O.K. So I got some more information today.

Appearantly, whoever this guy is he teaches at some college somewhere and is coming home for the summer to live with his parents. From what I'm told he also charges about double what I charge for a lesson... (Maybe I need to raise my prices.)

The one factor that still kinda suprises me is that the guy knows that these kids are taking lessons right now, but it doesn't seem be an issue to him.

I'm supposed to wait to hear from this students mom as to what her decision will be. (boy, ever feel like a piece of meat )

On a positive note, both students did sound like they are interested in studying with me this summer but just have to iron out scheduling with their parents.

Well... whatever...
Jim Langenberg

[ThomasDodd]

O.K. So I got some more information today.

Appearantly, whoever this guy is he teaches at some college somewhere and is coming home for the summer to live with his parents. From what I'm told he also charges about double what I charge for a lesson... (Maybe I need to raise my prices.)

So maybe he is better

Then again maybe the students don't like him. Maybe the parents don't notice the progress the are acustomed to, and decide to stop paying the higher price. Give them a month to test the new guy out. He may have something to offer them.

Either way, come August he's headed back where ever, and then what? I would suddenly have no room during the school sessions. Offer lessons at your place or theirs, but at the rate the other guy charged.

The one factor that still kinda suprises me is that the guy knows that these kids are taking lessons right now, but it doesn't seem be an issue to him.

You are surprized at that? Given the moral decay these days? Everybody is looking out for #1 and the hell with the rest.

If it's any concilation, what goes around, comes around. That's just as true today as ever. He'll get his at some point, as will the students. It might be 20 years from now, but it'll happen.

[Naptown Tuba]

You can lead a horse to water, you can even make 'em play tuba, but a silk purse wasn't built in a day from a bloody stone!

I thought a silk purse was built from 2 birds in a bush with a pound of cure???

Seriously, come fall, I'd take them back and (agreeing with ThomasDodd) I'd definitely have no problem raising my rate to the level of the summer sub. What are they going to say??!!

[MikeMason]

If kids would actually practice, i might even consider teaching some.Empty threat.....

[tofu]

Competition in whatever you do is a way of life. The thing you have to wonder about is how did this guy so easily tap into your student base?

I can think of several ways, but most take more effort than a guy like this is going to put forth. My guess is this guy got it from someone at the school. In any business you always try to protect your client list.

You might want to see if you can plug this leak. Many a business has been humbled by a clerical worker not seeing the harm in giving out info that they don't see as vital. A little talk with whoever you think gave out the info about "protecting students right to privacy and keeping potential lawsuits at bay" could go a long way.

[Dan Schultz]

Competition in whatever you do is a way of life. The thing you have to wonder about is how did this guy so easily tap into your student base?

Making discoveries into who is serving who is not really rocket science. I have a couple of large companies wondering how I manage to stay busy with a one-man repair shop. It's simple... a small amount of talking around and a minimal amount of personal networking yields enough information to easily find out where the work it. Customers aren't 'stolen'. They simply stumble onto different resources. From my experience, it's usually the customer who is looking for better services.

As far as finding students is concerned, I would think it would be a rather easy task to phone local band directors and get the names of tuba players. From there, it's just a matter of one more phone call.

[tofu]

As far as finding students is concerned, I would think it would be a rather easy task to phone local band directors and get the names of tuba players. From there, it's just a matter of one more phone call.

In this day and age if I were running a school district and had a teacher give out such info so easily they would be fired or mopping the floors. In the school districts around here you would not get such info on the up and up. It would have to be procurred from someone on the inside who to give you said info would put their job on the line. Of course there are always those people who think it will never be found out or traced back to them & they are always the ones who have that stunned look on their face as they do the perp walk.

Personal private info is a big deal these days.

[Carroll]

The thing you have to wonder about is how did this guy so easily tap into your student base?

Perhaps they did what I suggest all of my student teachers, who wish to teach privately. I suggest they go offer to teach a FREE sectional for the director. That way they get into the school, get on the good side of the director, and meet the kids. If they are charmimg and freindly, bring along some fun ensemble piece, and provide a positive experience - the kids will be glad to give them their names and numbers. Some will take lessons, some will not. If the kids do take lessons and discover it is a waste of time, they will usually seek out a better teacher.

[Dan Schultz]

As far as finding students is concerned, I would think it would be a rather easy task to phone local band directors and get the names of tuba players. From there, it's just a matter of one more phone call.

In this day and age if I were running a school district and had a teacher give out such info so easily they would be fired or mopping the floors.

This is not a matter of a teacher being innapropriate. Lots of folks network through community groups, churches, and other social groups. All a person has to do is pay attention to get all the information needed to 'steal' students. I still contend this is all a matter of free enterprise. A teacher's main concern should be who is the best for the task.... not to protect his own or his fellow teachers interests. If you think the kids don't talk to each other about who is the 'best' teacher... think again