Now I'm a believer!

[Carroll]

WARNING :HOOEY ALERT!

This is going to sound like so much mumbo-jumbo... but hear me out. I have struggled with the high "A" on my Sterling euphonium since I bought it. I think this is a typical problem with this horn. I even had the second valve slide shortened... but the note was still 15 cents flat. I can lip it up (have been for 8 years) but it does affect the quality of the sound. I tried all the gimmicks: matchstick in the tuning slide, rubber hose in the tubing, wacky fingerings, etc. but it was all for naught. Then I read this

I found the node for the b7th harmonic and put a 1 inch wide piece of golfer's lead tape around the dented inner bow at that point.

Thank you TUBENET!
I played my flat "A" and felt around on the upward branch after the valve section until I felt the strongest vibrations and marked that spot. Then I grasped and released that point several times and watched the intonation change. I could grab before the spot and lower the note even more, and just after it to raise the pitch. How exciting. I put a strip of golfer's tape (really just a lead strip with adhesive backing) around the tube and played. The "A" was spot on! I checked the top of the staff "A" and it was still fine. Then I started checking other notes chromatically. Nothing else had seemed to move. Then I went up from high "A". I have not been able to slot the high "B" on this horn since I bought it. I can play every other note up to "F". Just to make sure it was not me, I had buddies play it and the "B" was not there. Must be a brace or something??? But now... the "B" speaks! The tube circumference is greater than the length of the tape, so I decided to use another strip to completely encircle the tube. This actually killed the "B" and lowered the top of staff "A".

Just to make sure it was not "I want it to work, so it works", I marked the spot with a pencil and showed my wife how to apply the tape. Then she would put it on, take it off, and add the second strip to the back of the tube. For each experimental run we would cover the "spot" with a cloth and then I would test it with the tuner. There is no doubt in my mind that this is effective for me, on these notes, on this horn, at this time. But that is more than good enough for me.

And besides, the tape is silver colored... just like my horn!

[iiipopes]

Glad I could be of help, and I'm glad it worked out for you. Happy playing!

[imperialbari]

Interesting reading!

I haven’t tried the method reported on, only used mouthpiece weights and done some experiments with placements of trombone balancers.

From my work with woodwinds I know, that sudden changes of bore in certain spots will influence intonation and response of certain notes.

Once had a high-end large bore tenor trombone. When one looked down the bell stack after the tuning slide, it was obvious, that the bore progression was not even by any mathematical standard. It was wavering (?).

May our acoustical experts tell, whether this was a measure taken by the maker to slot some notes better? Or was it just sloppy production?

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

[iiipopes]

If it was done on purpose, it's because an evenly tempered scale is NOT anywhere close to a natural harmonic progression in terms of frequency of pitches. Schilke experimented with step bores to work the problem, Pilczuk developed a competely different leadpipe to address the issue, I use tape, other lip and others pull. It's all a result of trying to force 2^1/12 @ 12 per octave, or approximately 1.0594631 multiplier per half step onto a horn that has static length cylindrical tubing to try to sort out the notes.

[XtremeEuph]

Wow congratulations..................speaking of A's, my Low A and Ab in the staff are UNBELIEVABLY flat, everything else can be lipped that ive noticed.

[Chuck(G)]

So, basically, you're adding lead tape to take care of an inadequately braced instrument?

Is there much method behind determining where braces go on a tuba or euphonium? Or is it a matter of "if it wiggles too much, better stick a brace in"?

For example, almost every 4 rotary valve tuba I've seen has the valve cluster braced at the tuning slide end and the leadpipe end--never betwen valves 2 and 3. Has anyone experimented with a brace here to see what it will do?

Or are Monsterweights® the answer?

[UDELBR]

Sure sounds like voodoo.

But glad ya'll are such willing converts....

[Carroll]

Given:

This is going to sound like so much mumbo-jumbo

Sure sounds like voodoo.

But that is more than good enough for me.

[XtremeEuph]

Im confused of the practice here because i dont know enough of the mechanical tendencies, does the increased weight raise the pitch somehow?

[Chuck(G)]

ahhhh haaaaa! Definately worth a try! Where can I get some golfers tape?

GlenWells

How about a pro shop at a golf course? Tennis players use some of the same stuff to change the balance on their racquets, so a tennis pro shop would also do.

[Chuck(G)]

bloke "who respects C.G., but ain't buyin' it"

I didn't say that I bought it either, just trying to be helpful and understand...

[Carroll]

ahhhh haaaaa! Definately worth a try! Where can I get some golfers tape?

Actually I tried the pro shop first, then the high end sporting goods shops, then hardware stores, then Wally-world and finally came up with golf tape at K Mart... who woulda thunk it.

[Carroll]

bloke "who respects C.G., but ain't buyin' it"

Thanks Joe. If your kid is going to Gov's school they can see/hear it at the concert on Father's Day (Nashville Wind Ensemble) lot's of high "A"s in that set.

[iiipopes]

Hey, bloke - remember that the state motto for Missouri is "Show Me," with the usual updating to, "Put your money where your mouth is." So I wouldn't have posted it if I hadn't tried it first. All I can say is I tried it and it worked for me, and it has worked elsewhere. Your mileage may vary.

What the lead tape is doing is varying the damping factor of the horn in relation to certain resonances and nodes. It's simply another method of doing it, along with bracing placement, metal thickness, design of the bows and tubing wrap, etc.

[dwerden]

I wouldn't discount this idea. It has been known for years how vibration nodes affect intonation, and it seems possible that this technique could affect that vibration.

On a lot of compensating euphoniums the high A concert is flat. During various testing sessions of a half dozen popular models I found them all to be flat to some extent. The Hirsbrunner was closest to being in tune, but it still leaned downward. In the right musical context it is possible to lift the A with your chops, but sometimes that doesn't work out so well (and it gets really hard when your chops are tired). So you can also try using 1&2 instead of 2 for the fingering. It is usually sharper - in fact, you may need to let the pitch "relax" downward a bit with 1&2. It will also sound brighter, but you can easily adjust your air flow to compensate for that.

Dave Werden
www.dwerden.com / www.tubaeuph.com
Instructor of Euphonium and Tuba, University of Minnesota
(Solo Euphonium, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired)

[iiipopes]

Dave -- thanks.