Tuba Students with Vocal Training

[Steve Marcus]

It seems that some tuba students who get "stuck" in the isometric manner of breathing have had some vocal training in their background that advocates this type of breathing.

What are some effective ways to coach these students to loosen up their abdomens to allow for a more full, easy inhalation?

[Onebaplayer]

being one of those people who has a lot of vocal background that i had to work to overcome, "The Breathing Gym" is probably the best thing for that problem. A breathing tube also makes it fairly hard to create tension. Observing others who don't have these problems is also very effective.

[iiipopes]

I am lucky. I had private vocal lessons all through high school and college, although with the current state of my sinuses after a fixed broken nose you probably couldn't tell. Especially my late voice teacher, give her rest, and my conductors/directors, both instrumental and vocal, did not curse me with the "isotonic" method. They were fortunately enlightened as to the real physiology of breathing, (or so totally ignorant of the subject that as long as a good sound came out front they knew enough not to meddle with it) and I have been the beneficiary, whether it be voice, tuba, or even catching my breath after running down a fly ball playing in church league softball. No "tension," just controlled expansion and contraction of the entire thorax for deep relaxed breathing that can sustain a long, long phrase. I used to practice the controlled exhalation aspect with Handel oratorio excerpts to the point that on such items as "The Trumpet Shall Sound," and "Every Valley" (OK, I transposed it down to C for baritone. Why should only tenors have all the fun?!) I could do each of the melismatas in one breath. Hmm. I need to get those back out....

[tubeast]

I realise, of course, that professional singing is a unique kind of using air to produce sound. So whatever method of breathing is used, I´ll grant teachers of such method the potential to know what they´re doing.

So what IS the "isometric" approach to breathing ?
Are there arguments in favor or against it ? Is the singing world itself divided upon that matter ?

One thing I remember, though:
from about 8 till 13 I joined a "Kantorei" (Church choir) lead by a professional church musician. (She was to become "Landeskirchenmusikdirektor", head of the church musicians in our Bundesland)
We did quite a bit of voice training and performed works for choir and orchestra. I was told to imagine air flowing into my belly and towards my kidneys, and never heard anything different learning brass later.

[iiipopes]

The "isometric" approach to breathing is a school of thought that all the muscles supporting the diaphram have to be as firm as possible throughout the entire breathing cycle, both inhaling and exhaling. All this does is unnecessarily restrict air flow, rather than the natural way of breathing that can be enhanced as the alternate groups of muscles take their respective turns inhaling and exhaling. This is oversimplified, and many more have written much more, but this is the essence of it.

[brianf]

So what IS the "isometric" approach to breathing ?

Theories of breathing for wind instruments came from the 19th century voice school. The voice does not require much air especially in comparison to the tuba. These theories were not based on physiology. Low flow rate instruments (oboe, trumpet) picked this up and it became the standard shool of thought for generations - as Mr Jacobs said, (listen to him at http://www.windsongpress.com/almost%20l ... ng%201.htm ) it worked in sume instances but not others.

It is interesting that this "old school" method is still around, especially in the trumpet world although it ties up many players in knots. Seems some people think of air as pressure and not flow.

There is a lot about the history of this on a new book by Luis Loubriel - www.luisloubriel.com/index.html

[tubeast]

Thanks alot for your input on this matter.

So do you (especially the band directors out there) have any insight into different approaches to breathing for different wind instruments ?
I always figured if you learned to deal with a tuba, you could easily adapt the approach to breathing to other air consuming instruments.
Once I gave our lead trumpet player a lesson on BBb tuba. I just told him to play the same tunes he used to play on his trumpet/flugelhorn, just down two octaves. He struggled to play simple songs the way he used to on trumpet. When he switched back to trumpet, he was amazed at the kind of phrasing he was able to do all of a sudden.

This gave me the impression that if you learned to play lyrically on the tuba, all other windinstruments would be pieces of cake, as far as air/breathing technique was concerned.

Do you people have anything to contradict this theory ?

[windshieldbug]

Do you people have anything to contradict this theory ?

No, only to confirm it. Once I learned a decent tuba embrochure and air use, going back up to the smaller brass was, as you say, unbelievably easy and made me wonder how I could have been so far off.

[iiipopes]

Indeed.

Edit: a new article by Roger Bobo on the subject of breathing. Good reading at the neighbors:
http://www.tubanews.com/articles/contentid-278.html

[MikeMason]

As a non-trained,non-vocalist who only sings in the car when alone, i never would have guessed there would be a down side to being classically trained to sing.Whodathunkit?

[iiipopes]

"Down side?" Only if you were trained in the obsolete, and actually detrimental way of breathing we've been discussing. Even then, the upside: learing to pitch, phrasing, blend, purity of tone, etc., I have found invaluable for not only getting the notes right, but assimilating the part in the larger context, as in listening for what instruments are playing with you in a certain section, who you have to support for the melody or theme, etc.

[Captain Sousie]

I was seduced away to the dark side (tuba playing) after my freshman year of college. Before that I had been a vocal major and I continued voice lessons throughout my college stint. I would say that you have a point that many vocalists face this barrier. I was fortunate to have played tuba and been a singer with many 'ignorant' teachers who all advocated free, smooth breathing, no tight intercostals there. The 'isometric' breathing never quite worked out for me so I guess that was a good thing. I can see how it would mess up a player's breathing though.

Thanks for the interesting thought,
Sou

[Tabor]

Hmmm...as someone who does both, I have to say that they are somewhat different and it is difficult to do both well, but they don't have to be completely exclusive of one another. I have never had breathing for singing cause a problem with breathing for playing.

Because singers don't need to use the same amounts of air that tubists do, the appoggio method used is ideally suited to the voice: using the antagonistic muscles of the ribcage and belly to "lean" on each other to create incredible control, taking completely silent breaths which do NOT fill up the lungs the way a tubist must. Some people can actually learn this with little tension in the neck and chest. Playing the tuba requires us to come much closer to maximum usage, which requires expansion in parts of the lungs that would be undesirable for classical singing.

I took a breathing gym masterclass with Pat Sheridan and think that it is a good thing for all musicians. It isn't only about moving large amounts of air quickly, but also about moving air slowly, regulating airflow and knowing yourself when it comes to breath.

Many voice teachers and many tuba teachers try to get you to use vastly different amounts of air to produce and manipulate different sounds in a similar way. Using too much air for voice is just as bad (if not worse) for singing as using too little air for playing the tuba. It can be confusing, and even more confusing to a younger student when both teachers say that their way is the right way and the other way is the wrong way.

The truth is that when the concert rolls around, I just don't think about it. Whether I am singing or playing the tuba, I just try to make the sound I need to make without thinking much about the mechanics. Even the teachers I've had who demand students strictly adhere to a particular method of breathing enjoy a concert where the music is effectively communicated, rather than the method.