ive been reading for a long time and........

[trseaman]

too many players looking to get the perfect tuba, always wanting a darker sound, bettor clarity, faster valves, to play louder or any number of things.

I agree, but I believe that the answer is "yes" and "yes" to your poll... I'm not a professional, just a community band player. I don't need a $10K horn but one that works for me and that I'm comfortable with. Personally, I have a few obstacles in making a tuba selection.

My Issues:
1) My biggest problem is lack of funds to get that new Hirsbrunner!

2) I live on the west coast in Southern CA and tuba choices out here are limited. So I choose what is locally or take a road trip to visit larger retailers in the East. (Road trip isn't possible refer to #1)

3) I do believe that "you" make your horn sound good... Practice is key and the results will prove it.

4) Until you have tried "all horns", how do you know if there's not a better match for you??? I play well on "this horn" but I might play better on "that horn", etc...

I'm still going to search for that perfect horn, it'll just take me the rest of my life to get it done! Don't forget that "the search" for some people is part of the fun! Until then, I'm happy with my current horn but quietly still searching!


Tim

[windshieldbug]

My biggest problem is lack of funds to get that new Hirsbrunner!

That's one of the great parts of bing a tuba player... unlike "flavor of the week" trumpet players, you know you've found "the horn" only when you're sufficiently motivated to go through the pain of acquiring it!

[Rick Denney]

The tension between these two camps will never go away.

But the fact is that I don't care. I had a reason for buying the tubas that I have bought, and those reasons were real to me at the time. The only justification required for buying a tuba is that I have the money and I want it.

While I'm no better playing the Holton than playing the Miraphone (or York Master), the Holton still gets a sound closer to what I want to produce in band. But I cannot play it while standing like I can the Miraphone. And while my skills are just as limited playing my Yamaha 621 F tuba or the B&S, the B&S still projects better in a large ensemble, while the 621 is still easier to play and easier to carry for standing gigs.

For some people, buying interesting tubas IS their hobby. I can find nothing about doing so that will prevent them from becoming the best player they can be.

Rick "who would answer the poll thusly: 'Yes'" Denney

[GC]

A really good player can make almost any horn sound good. On the other hand, a mediocre horn can make a good player work much too hard overcoming its limitations. If you're constantly distracted by fighting the horn, it's hard to play your best. Your musicianship should be job one, not "do I need an alternate fingering for F in this key, or do I just lip it up?"

Get a horn you're comfortable with, and work hard on it. If you're not comfortable with the horn, keep looking and move on. If you just like variety and collecting, keep up the chase.

[iiipopes]

If you have the cash (and I realize a majority of tuba players don't, or are too young, so they use school/institution/borrowed instruments) think very carefully about what you are realistically going to do with a purchased tuba. For me, I know that no matter how good I get, I'm not really going to be playing outside the area in community/social organization bands, so I got my Besson.

By saving your money, realistically assessing your playing, and careful shopping, most of the tension goes away. For example, a good Miraphone, Besson, pre-1969 Conn, pre-UMI King, or any number of other fine instruments, whether brand new or made right after the factory opened, will usually still be sufficient, enjoyable, comparatively less expensive, and will be durable for generations. My own Besson is 35+ years old. I'm borrowing an Eb for some things that is, well, ancient.

That leads into the second point. Until you know you are going to have steady gigs that need a second tuba, and unless you just like having multiple piles of old brass laying around, you can usually borrow what ever else you need, like the Eb from my undergraduate college, who has a small concert band, and no real use for an Eb right now.

The tension will never go away, just as people will always want, as the Price is Right exclamation, "A NEW CAR!!" And sometimes it is appropriate to purchase a brand new instrument. But being patient, realistic assessment, and careful shopping will go a long way to minimizing the tension.

And I will admit I am by guitars the way Rick is by tubas, and yes, I have over the years paid for them with weekend gig money. My personal preference? When I can afford it, a Besson 3-valve Eb comp, like the one currently for sale at Wichita, to match my Besson, as eventually with the repertoire of the groups I am in, and church gigs, etc., I will develop a steady need for one. I just hate borrowing. I don't mind lending, but I hate the obligation of borrowing.

[trseaman]

Okay,

So I'm in the middle aged crowd but I was explaining, or trying to explain buying more tubas to my mother. I told her I'm a little like my dad who likes to collect firearms, single action pistols to be exact. Dad has a modest collect that includes about 60 different handguns. I don't inspire to have 60 tubas and most pistols don't cost anywhere near the price of a tuba. My mom asked why I need or want more than one tuba... Her comment was that I can't play them at the same time!!!

Wouldn't that be a sight?!

Tim

[Lew]

Her comment was that I can't play them at the same time!!!

Wouldn't that be a sight?!

Tim

My wife says the same thing, and I only have about 15 different tubas in various shapes and sizes. My response is that, no I can't play them all at once, but I do use different instruments for different purposes and can justify at least 4 of my horns for the different types of playing I do. I have actually played as many as 3 different horns in one concert (BBb tuba, Eb tuba, Eb sousaphone).

But, I like Rick's comment best,

The only justification required for buying a tuba is that I have the money and I want it.

[TubaRay]

Okay,

So I'm in the middle aged crowd but I was explaining, or trying to explain buying more tubas to my mother. I told her I'm a little like my dad who likes to collect firearms, single action pistols to be exact. Dad has a modest collect that includes about 60 different handguns. I don't inspire to have 60 tubas and most pistols don't cost anywhere near the price of a tuba. My mom asked why I need or want more than one tuba... Her comment was that I can't play them at the same time!!!

Wouldn't that be a sight?!
Tim

It would be quite a sight to see you dad firing all 60 handguns at the same time, too. Not exactly a fair question, here.

[rwiegand]

Why choose? Neither of the options excludes the other, so why worry about it?

Yes, a great player can make crappy equipment sound good, but, if you can afford better equipment why not get it and focus your attention on playing more musically rather than on overcoming the deficiencies of the horn?

Practicing more and getting more out of whatever equipment you have at the moment is pretty obvious.

I just both got a new horn and started lessons and increased my practice time dramatically. What little improvement has happened so far has about 90% to do with working on breathing and 10% to do with not having leaky valves so it is in fact physically possible to play the horn in tune. I don't regret either improvement.

[Rick Denney]

The tension will never go away, just as people will always want, as the Price is Right exclamation, "A NEW CAR!!" And sometimes it is appropriate to purchase a brand new instrument. But being patient, realistic assessment, and careful shopping will go a long way to minimizing the tension.

I have three Bb tubas, a sousaphone, two F tubas, an almost-F tuba, two euphoniums, a bass quitar, two trombones, and a piano. I claim competence on none, and not even minimal competence on several.

But I feel no tension whatsoever.

I set aside a reasonable sum for savings and retirement, and I give away some for causes I think important. And I pay bills, keeping my loan balances down in the convenience range. The rest I spend without feeling guilty.

I feel no obligation to be able to play any given instrument to any given level of competence as a standard of justifiable ownership. If I did, I really would be a slave to my possessions, wouldn't I? The only thing that drives me to improve is the satisfaction I obtain from getting the sound and musicianship that I want. Someday I might be able to do that.

I've only had one tuba that earned me enough money to pay for itself, and that is my Yamaha 621 F tuba--probably the most specialized of all my tubas.

Rick "concerned not when we have things, but when things have us" Denney

[trseaman]

It would be quite a sight to see your dad firing all 60 handguns at the same time, too. Not exactly a fair question, here.

No it's not but men have the same complaints with women and their shoes & purses.

Tim

[Chuck(G)]

If my wife would let me have 10+ tubas, she could have all the shoes she wanted.

That could get to be expensive...

[iiipopes]

Hey bloke -- thanks!

[Adam C.]

...and now they're buying 10 brand new 4 valve sousaphones for marching season, so I don't even have to worry about getting better equipment, it kinda just falls in my lap...

I assume this is a high school, and they're buying the students 4-valve sousaphones? I feel sorry for the kids having to lug that extra weight around, especially since the 4th valve is pretty much useless given the instrument and context.

[XtremeEuph]

If my wife would let me have 10+ tubas, she could have all the shoes she wanted.

Dont even go there, if you open my moms closet, it feels like you've just been kicked in the face!

[chipster55]

I play what I can afford, but is a new tuba going to make me a better tuba player any more than new golf clubs going to make me a better golfer? If that were the case, I'd have a closet full of green jackets!

[iiipopes]

No, new golf clubs may not make you a Masters winner, but just like getting the proper sized suit so it's not tight in the shoulders or with sleeves that drop below your fingers, getting some help to figure out your own physiology in relation to what you play can help narrow the choices so you don't get the wrong tuba. For example, in golf, I shoot basically bogey golf. So I'm not able to take advantage of the playability of old-fashioned blade irons, but oversized heads with pure perimeter weighting and a thick sole will not let me golf to my best score. So I have a hybrid type iron, with a shaft that is just a little bit stiffer than regular, because of my strong wrists, but has a little more torque because of my old elbow injury.

Likewise, I probably won't buy a BAT, because I just can't fill it. But a M-W 11 is too small for me, and I've posted before my right hand pinky being really short, and my affinity for all things British. So I have my Besson, and play the souzy when needed outdoors.

So what you get will not make you a better player, but tailoring your selection to your situation, like bloke said, can help bring out your best. And don't forget little things that a tech can do for you that smaller brass players don't need: adjusted mouthpipe and receiver for angle and height, position of thumb ring, etc.

Fore!

[imperialbari]

The tension between these two camps will never go away.

Even if I voted with the current majority of the poll, I really don’t see any such tension.

It all begins with the musicianship of the player, be it acquired by natural talent or be it developed through woodshedding. Aside from good ears and good lips I have had to fight hard for any achieved skill. Reading letters and reading music is anything but a natural gift of mine.

However I am extremely strong with numbers, so I must have developed some statistical method to tell, what the most likely outcome of problematic reading situations would be.

When one develops as a musician, one also will learn to know which equipment will work for one.

Due to asthma I have been forced to be able to relax at will. Resistant instruments will induce attacks immediately.

Hence I go for high quality instruments a bit above average in size (but not for 6/4). I use a very large mpc (PT-50) for all of my 7 basses but for the two Brits with small receivers.

I know how to modify backbores to reduce turbulences, which create resistance and undesirable overtones (I guess RD would call that resistance by the term of impedance, and I guess he would be right, but my tech English is limited).

I have been through very few tuba mouthpieces: a Danish Elsberg, Conn Helleberg, DW1L, and the said PT-50. For the Brits I have had to supplement with DW 1 and 4 respectively, but then my 1870 Besson Eb is not that much larger than a modern euph.

Set out a goal for your sound, practice like a madman, get yourself a bit of knowledge, and you will know the short road to the right equipment.

Only had the chance to try out one of my basses before buying it. Haven’t regretted any of the others, even if one looks like a disaster, and some of them have had minor problems like leaks, which I could fix myself.

Again: set out a goal for yourself, and you soon will learn how to find the efficient road also equipmentwise.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

[Stefan Kac]

A very few are able to analyze self and equipment accurately enough to combine their analyses with efficiently directed work to accomplish something remarkable.

When one develops as a musician, one also will learn to know which equipment will work for one.

I think these guys hit the nail on the head. Not only does one improve over time with practice, but artistic considerations change as well. If you do the work, you might emerge able to make great music with your current axe yet also more clearly able to recognize its strengths and weaknesses relative to what you do with it.