Allstate- Bb Only!

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:36 pm

Ask 'em!

mTaUrBkA · Post by **mTaUrBkA** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:47 am

windshieldbug wrote:Ask 'em!

I asked my band director and he didn't know.......but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't realize that they made tubas in different keys.

TMurphy · Post by **TMurphy** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:34 pm

bloke wrote:' sounds to me like just another typical dumb yankee rule.

You mean like the one about no long hair???

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:49 pm

Tubist of Time wrote:there was no range issue

Only might be if it was only 3 valves, but then, if they knew what they were talking about, keys + valves would make more sense...

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:01 pm

tubaman5150 wrote:... Simply put, its when an individual cannot grasp the concept that tubas do not transpose. ...

I'll bet that this is exactly the reason. And if they know so little about tubas, then auditioning on a CC would not be a problem because they would not know it wasn't a BBb.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:18 pm

For people without perfect pitch, they probably wouldn't know if a person auditioned untransposed, and then couldn't provided transposed parts in that key for performance with the band (once again, treble clef thinking).

In the same vein, they probably have the difficulty of the scales, etc. that they will ask in the audition worked out beforehand. And if they only know a little, a Db scale is easier fingering on a BBb than a CC, etc. I would imagine that they only have one set, regardless of the instrument. Again, treble clef/trumpet thinking.

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:18 pm

From the way I understand this, the audition is to be done on a BBb tuba. I think you can still sneak in a C tuba for a performance.

When I enlisted in the Army band program, for my audition, I paid for a seat for my tuba (the Army paid for me) to fly from Ontario (California) to Monterey to go to Fort Ord (now Cal State University, Monterey Peninsula). I took my Mirafone C tuba because I knew I could do anything with it.

The man auditioning me didn't listen to me. He watched my fingers. He looked shocked. When I used the combination 1, 2, and 5 for a Db/C#, he tried to tell me the fingering was 2 and 3. I then explained, just before he was going to fail me for incorrect fingerings, that I had a C tuba and the fingerings were all different. Since the man had a tin ear, he had no choice but to give me a 100% score--actually he could have failed me!

Does that make sense?

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:55 pm

LoyalTubist wrote:Does that make sense?

No! Since you weren't using the approved army fingerings, obviously your type wasn't cut out for the army!

Doug@GT · Post by **Doug@GT** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:16 am

tubaman5150 wrote:This is a common syndrome that afflicts mostly conductors (especially those who slept through orchestration class)
I call it:Tuba Transposition Ingorance Syndrome or TTIS
Simply put, its when an individual cannot grasp the concept that tubas do not transpose.

If this were the case, wouldn't the requirement be that only C Tubas could audition?

Someone transposing in Bb would get confused just like a trumpet player, while transposing in C would mean...playing what's written. (at least, that's how it's been described to me before)

So you could be really clever and show up with a BBb tuba, and play everything transposed down a whole step (play a written C as a Bb).

tubaman5150 · Post by **tubaman5150** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:27 am

Doug@GT wrote:
tubaman5150 wrote:This is a common syndrome that afflicts mostly conductors (especially those who slept through orchestration class)
I call it:Tuba Transposition Ingorance Syndrome or TTIS
Simply put, its when an individual cannot grasp the concept that tubas do not transpose.
If this were the case, wouldn't the requirement be that only C Tubas could audition?

Someone transposing in Bb would get confused just like a trumpet player, while transposing in C would mean...playing what's written. (at least, that's how it's been described to me before)

So you could be really clever and show up with a BBb tuba, and play everything transposed down a whole step (play a written C as a Bb).

The folks I'm speaking of think BBb tuba is like a Bb trumpet.
Hence, they believe tuba music is transposed and/or CC tuba has the same fingerings as a BBb tuba. Something like that.
I try not to think too hard about what goes on in my fellow band directors' collective heads.

To quote Ron White:
"You can't fix stupid."

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:14 pm

mTaUrBkA wrote:In the fine print of the tuba audition sheet for New Hampshire Allstate Band and Orchestra, it says that only Bb tubas can audition. It was no problem for me because I play Bb, but I was wondering why they make that restriction. Anyone have any ideas/thoughts about that? Also, do other states have the same restrictions?

Obviously, New Hampshire is now part of re-unified Germany!

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:50 pm

Some band directors think C tubas are for smart alecks. This BBb only policy keeps the tuba players in check.

yohan · Post by **yohan** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:36 pm

Slightly off topic here, but here are my 5 cents anyway

In (european??) brass band music, all parts including tubas (but not the bassbone for some odd reason) is written in treble clef and in the key of the instrument at hand (=Eb or BBb). Convenient, but confusing if you come from a symphonic band.

Also, it doesn't help much if you play CC or F tuba...

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:37 pm

In America all tuba music looks the same, whether you play BBb, C, Eb, F, or any other tuba.

However, a few years ago, the California Teaching Exam for music teachers had a question about the transposition of tubas and I am sure it was based on the British brass band concept of notation. I complained to the testing authority and I received a letter telling me to never attempt that test again, along with a refund check for the testing fees.

Some decisions are made at the executive level and we have no control over them.

Donn · Post by **Donn** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:03 pm

Mark wrote:
tubaman5150 wrote:... Simply put, its when an individual cannot grasp the concept that tubas do not transpose. ...
I'll bet that this is exactly the reason. And if they know so little about tubas, then auditioning on a CC would not be a problem because they would not know it wasn't a BBb.

Of course band people know tubas play C music and don't transpose. Therefore, since tuba notation is (in the US) in concert pitch, it's obviously cheating if you audition on a C tuba, when everyone else has a Bb tuba. Because you don't have to transpose and they do, that's all.

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:17 pm

Let me correct you (no offense):

Tuba players in band know this, as well as their spouses and significant others. I get the impression no one else has gotten the word yet. And this has been going on for well over 150 years!

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:27 pm

Tubas don't transpose bass clef!?
No wonder my band playing sounds off!!!

Next thing, you'll tell me that the drum parts aren't transposed, either!

hurricane_harry · Post by **hurricane_harry** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:31 pm

i would write a formal complaint to the head of the orginization arguing that near all profecional (sp?) tuba players play on CC, and alan baer has written that BBb tuba is too big to play on. argue that they are encouraging players to play on "ameture" eqiptment. you could also bring up the fact that the top music conservitories require that you play CC and F tuba

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