Question about trombone doubling

[dtemp]

So I bought a euphonium with future intensions of using it in a educational setting.

My path has turned away from that destination as of late, so I've been thinking about replacing it with a doubling instrument I might actually get gigs on. That being trombone. I haven't played trombone consistently since high school, so I turn to TubeNet for advice.

Here's my ideal situation:

I sell my euphonium and get one trombone with the capabilities to cover the 2nd - 4th parts. *Keep in mind this is not for "real pro" type gigs.* I'm talking about minor use in quintet, comm. band / orchestra / big band. I would expect that I'd have to get a few different mouthpieces for different situations, which is acceptable.

Does such a bone exist? I've heard that horns like a Bach 36 or 42 might do the trick. Anyone have any other suggestions? I'm looking for used, and I'd like to get something for equal or lesser price that I could get for my euph (which seems quite resonable).

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[dtemp]

What's the euphonium?

Meinl Weston 451.

[tbn.al]

You are probably not going to be happy covering 4th parts unless you go ahead and get a bass trombone, preferrably of the double trigger variety. You can get by quite nicely for 2nd and 3rd with a single trigger big bore tenor. The best one I have found in 50 years of playing is the one I am now using, an Olds Opera Symphony. It is larger than the .547 bore 42B it replaced in my closet having a .554 bore with a .562 valve and F section. If it had a 9.5 inch bell instead of 8.5 you could call it a bass. The upper register is nice and open. I use a Shilke 51 to 58 depending on the part. For serious Bass Bone doubling or symphony work I go back to my Besson 943 double trigger.

There is an Olds Opera Symphony on eBay right now.

[iiipopes]

Yes, for 4th parts. But for 2nd & 3rd, it's too big. Unfortunately, there is no do-it-all trombone. If you want to play 2nd & 3rd parts, something in the neighborhood of a .525, like a like the Bach 36, or a King 4B, or a little larger, is a good choice, along with, Conns, Holtons, etc. Getzen has a Model 525F dual bore, and now that the Getzen family is back in control, there is no reason to believe it's not an excellent instrument. It might come the closest to being a horn for everything from 2nd parts on down. Bore is not everything. Leadpipe, wrap, F-valve configuration and bell flare probably have more effect on the openness of the blow. Play as many horns as you can, and take someone with you to figure out what it sounds like "out front."

[tbn.al]

Mine is marked O-25, red brass bell. It is the most versitile horn I have ever owned. I do play 2nd parts with a Shilke 51 sometimes a 47. Nobody complains. It blends nicely with the section as long as I don't lay down on it. The upper register is remarkably clean for a big horn. I also put in a 58 occaisionally to do light classical stuff with it. Most recently an Ibert pice.
I wouldn't try any real Bass Trombone parts though. I can't believe Olds went under while building horns this good.

[dtemp]

Selling your MW might net you enough to pick up a straight .525" tenor (Bach 36 or King 3B+) and a decent older bass.

I think that is the way I might go. I'd still like an F attachment on the tenor, so I'll probably get a good "intermediate" tenor and a solid bass bone. If I end up using the tenor more often than I think, perhaps I'll trade up. But for now I have no need to get anything better than a "decent" tenor.

[iiipopes]

My "decent" tenor, which I bought for exactly the same reasons, is an early 60's H. N. White era King 3B with the gold brass bell. I paid $175 for it in 1987 at a store which was trying to sell nothing but new Yammy's at the time, and was too embarassed to bring it out until I insisted they bring out the "old" horns gathering dust. It's in perfect shape with wonderfully patina'ed lacquer, original cleaning rod, original marching lyre, and original fake alligator brown case, and now it's worth @ $1k. I recently got a Schilke 50 for it, and I'm having fun with it again, after not getting it out for many years. Some horns play well; this one really sings! It soars when I want it to, and because the Schilke 50 has good depth to it, I can bang out mid to lower parts shy of true bass bone parts without any gravelliness to speak of.

Which brings me to another overlooked point: bass bone gets as much from its particular style of mouthpiece as it does from the horn itself: rather thin rim, sizable diameter and deep enough to be a parabola and not just a rounded cup like a beginner's 12C, but not a conical profile either, which would take away the almost "reedy" presence a really good bass bone has. Not too large a throat, or you'll always be catching up with breath.