Group Investment

[iiipopes]

You'd be just as well off, probably less expensive, renting a small bore (.689, .709 or so) small bell F or Eb tuba, especially if the pit is cramped for space. I have on indefinite loan an ancient Eb from my undergrad, simply because no one else wants to use it, and I find it blends very well on pieces that require octaves in the bass and more than just occasional blending with the euphs, especially if it's a euph solo, so I can stay out of the way. BTW - one category was left out of the choices - "What's a cimbasso?"

[imperialbari]

You point towards a very relevant, but also a very tricky, situation. By accident I have touched upon the same situation within another recent thread:

viewtopic.php?p=124298&highlight=#124298

I have done pro jobs as a player, but I was more of a teacher and conductor, when it came to pay-checks.

My main goal was to make things work no matter how bad the odds were. I have a real lot of instruments, 100+. However the one behind my screen-name, the 1967 B&H Imperial British compensating baritone has a very special status. It took me 7 weeks of hard work in a slaughterhouse to come up with the dough (and then the taxes weren’t paid). It is the instrument I have owned the longest, even if it was not my first.

My students lent it and were extremely reluctant in giving it back. Fellow touring players have lent it, and I have had to threaten with police and courts to get it back.

It is a very special instrument, which has taken me to major stages in London, Liverpool, Oslo, Aarhus, and Copenhagen, where very few list members will be allowed to do concerts.

And this rant has a point:

I do not believe in collective ownership among a group of players!

The responsibility for any mishap will be passed down the line of users!

I know about two models, which have proved themselves workable:

A reputed repairman/retailer owns a specialty instrument and charges pro level rental fees. Those will not be too high, as he/she will loose business if overcharging.

A group of “minorâ€

[quinterbourne]

This is what you do:

Compile a list of 10+ people who would consider renting one (at, let's say, a reduced rate of $100 per week). Purchase the instrument, rent it out, get insurance, hope for the best and maybe earn back some of the money you spent buying the thing.

[tubatooter1940]

I am more familiar with boat sharing schemes than musical instrument sharing but I believe that either is usually doomed to failure unless there are a group of outstanding individuals involved.

[cjk]

This is what you do:

Compile a list of 10+ people who would consider renting one (at, let's say, a reduced rate of $100 per week). Purchase the instrument, rent it out, get insurance, hope for the best and maybe earn back some of the money you spent buying the thing.

Basically, you'd have to have it rented out every week for a year and a half to pay for it. That will never happen.

[danB]

You'd be surprised at how lucrative renting a unique instrument can be. Nick Atkinson (Tubist in Ottawa) bought one and has rented it out many times to the orchestras and universities in Montreal, Toronto and Quebec city. I heard he made back the investment he put in in two years and now makes money on the instrument even when he isn't playing it! Rex Martin also has rented/loaned his out to the Michigan Opera company and several other orchestras. The trick is coming up with the initial payment on one which I guess is what is really being discussed here.....You could always check that back issue of the TUBA journal and the ever uplifting article "How to build your own cimbasso" (yes I'm serious)....

d

[imperialbari]

As for building a cimbasso oneself, some members of this forum are more capable than others.

I like the approach of Sam "Tubanurse" Gnagey as displayed at

viewtopic.php?t=2904

A wonderful sample of:

Which parts are available?

How do I combine them into a workable instrument?

Utilising the bell, bottom bow, and the next one or two branches from whatever shape of American baritones will work for the bell section.

The luck or genius of Sam was the availability of a 4-piston 0.687" valve block (as I read it originally from a King Eb sousaphone).

But there we touch in at one of my sore points: scavenging from older instruments.

Personally I am not into King sousaphones, as I go for antique Conn’s on that matter. But that does not imply, that I find, that the King’s should be scavenged. They should be with players/collectors going for the King sound, which is most relevant, even if I happen to have a different preference.

One type of scavenging, which is fairly easy to come by, is acceptable, as everybody knows, that plastic sousaphones just about are made to die. If one follows the market, one will see bulks of them with chips and cracks beyond repair.

One model especially leaves off a very relevant valve section: the Conn 22K. Sadly it only has 3 valves.

Ranting a bit, but I am a collecting brass historian at heart. And at the same time I am a great admirer of inventive minds like Sam Gnagey and Joe Sellmansberger, even if their approaches and personal styles are very different.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

PS: A high-end euphonium with a main tuning slide trigger could do most cimbasso parts in regards of range and dynamics. Even the best American 4 valve baritones would run into intonation problems in the sore range above the open pedal Bb. And both would emanate a wrong sound.

The cimbasso is a valved bass trombone, not a small bore tuba/euph. Verdi wrote some devilish difficult passages, but then modern bass trombone players have become unbelievably accomplished in technical matters. Even the lowest contrabass trombone passages from Wagner are easy on a modern bass trombone in Bb. The sound may be a bit on the lighter/brighter side, but still hugely preferable to anything coming out of a tuba or a euphonium/baritone.